justsomeguy Posted March 15, 2007 Share Posted March 15, 2007 I think his general position is that his browser is a third-generation browser because he says it is, and he doesn't have to follow any standards because no one called him to get his opinion when the standards were being discussed. Also, something about Microsoft, and he's old. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aspnetguy Posted March 15, 2007 Share Posted March 15, 2007 I think his general position is that his browser is a third-generation browser because he says it is, and he doesn't have to follow any standards because no one called him to get his opinion when the standards were being discussed. Also, something about Microsoft, and he's old. thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonas Posted March 15, 2007 Share Posted March 15, 2007 I think his general position is that his browser is a third-generation browser because he says it is, and he doesn't have to follow any standards because no one called him to get his opinion when the standards were being discussed. Also, something about Microsoft, and he's old.Good summary. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pulpfiction Posted March 15, 2007 Share Posted March 15, 2007 poor notjustbrowsing , just shows not to mess with the top 5 posters of this forums..... Sorry, it is wrong place for me. I apologise for my presence in this forumchange your login name as justbrowsing and do that, you wouldnt invite so much trouble.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
justsomeguy Posted March 15, 2007 Share Posted March 15, 2007 Anyone is free to mess with me all they want, they just have to have a valid point that they can support with a good argument. I even told him I thought he had some good features, and a mind for creativity, but he refuses to acknowledge that standards support is a benefit. He has yet to give any evidence or argument as to why it is better to ignore standards. Standards are what makes it possible for a Windows network to communicate with a Linux network. Standards are what makes the email system work, standards are what makes FTP and Telnet work, and he would not be using his web browser to connect with a server and communicate with everyone here if it weren't for the standards that his browser is using to do that. I don't see him arguing that the HTTP standard is a bad thing, so I don't understand why he's arguing that the HTML standard is a bad thing.And I just realized something. It is more of a shame for IE/Firefox/Opera to be in that position and not providing their users what I am providing...The point is that I am providing a service that neither of them can provide nor they are capable of doing so.I find this statement, and a few others you make, to be slightly offensive. I want you to clarify exactly (specifically) what service you are providing to your users that Microsoft, the Mozilla Foundation, and Opera Software are not doing. Specific examples. Please do not ignore this question or reply with something that does not answer it.He ignored that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pulpfiction Posted March 15, 2007 Share Posted March 15, 2007 hey i didnt mean any offence to anybody here, was just trying to be funny.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
justsomeguy Posted March 15, 2007 Share Posted March 15, 2007 I didn't take offense, I just don't want people to feel intimidated to have a discussion with me based on my post count. If someone thinks I'm full of crap, I want to hear it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pulpfiction Posted March 15, 2007 Share Posted March 15, 2007 And I just realized something.I find this statement, and a few others you make, to be slightly offensive. I want you to clarify exactly (specifically) what service you are providing to your users that Microsoft, the Mozilla Foundation, and Opera Software are not doing. Specific examples. Please do not ignore this question or reply with something that does not answer it.He ignored that.I missed reading that part about the initial warning.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eBBee Posted March 16, 2007 Author Share Posted March 16, 2007 Do me a favour, download my software. Open "The Web Tailor" from "Tools" main menu.1. Write down in your reply, 4th and 5th link in the top right hand ComboBox.2. In the same tool, Open tab "Preview" and look at the bottom for "Style Sheet" and a ComboBox for selection of a style sheet. Write down in your reply, something that you may find interesting (hint: it begins with w??).If you get confused after looking at above references, cool down a little bit and re-read what I wrote about standards. There are ways for you to recognize things like VSS on a page, for example you could use an object tag which is a part of the spec.Now, since you missed the opportunity to ask any question, so please explain to your members why people introduce new tags? Also, write down VSS replacement using Object tag for others to know how to do VSS (that I am doing) using Object tag.Let me and others know where I made mistake in not choosing Object tag.How difficult it was for you to ask, "why I created VSS tag instead of using existing Object tag?". Because you are acting as a "prosecutor" and "Judge" at the same time. Leave it for others to decide who is arrogant.I have never seen anyone using insulting language to ask a question and getting an answer as well. I can't blame the one who has got 7 years of experience at the age of 25, for anything either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aspnetguy Posted March 16, 2007 Share Posted March 16, 2007 Do me a favour, download my software. Open "The Web Tailor" from "Tools" main menu.1. Write down in your reply, 4th and 5th link in the top right hand ComboBox.2. In the same tool, Open tab "Preview" and look at the bottom for "Style Sheet" and a ComboBox for selection of a style sheet. Write down in your reply, something that you may find interesting (hint: it begins with w??).If you get confused after looking at above references, cool down a little bit and re-read what I wrote about standards.Why do to beat around the bush on every major question we have asked you? What is your position on web standards? Are they good or are they bad? You seem to flip flop back and forth when your arguments get challenged. Leave it for others to decide who is arrogant.The "others" have pointed out you are being offensive and arrogant. What do you thing triggered such a strong reaction in the first place? I have never seen anyone using insulting language to ask a question and getting an answer as well. I can't blame the one who has got 7 years of experience at the age of 25, for anything either.Blame me for what? That I began persuing a career at a very young age? That my websites and applications are standards compliant, clean, efficient, and look and work the same in all browsers? That is only possible because of the efforts of those pushing web standards.You have done very little except stir up controversy and haven't really let us know what your position is let alone support it with good arguments.You seem to have been caught off that we don't think your browsaer is the greatest thing ever. But what did oyu expect? We deal with standards problems in IE everyday and it costs us time and money to have to accomodate IE's short comings (which your browser has also because you based it on the IE engine). I cannot support a product or point of view that threatens the progress the internet has made on standards. Nobody wants to relive the IE and Netscape days. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eBBee Posted March 16, 2007 Author Share Posted March 16, 2007 Do me a favour, download my software. Open "The Web Tailor" from "Tools" main menu.1. Write down in your reply, 4th and 5th link in the top right hand ComboBox.2. In the same tool, Open tab "Preview" and look at the bottom for "Style Sheet" and a ComboBox for selection of a style sheet. Write down in your reply, something that you may find interesting (hint: it begins with w??).I save you from using my software and tell you the answersA1. (4th Link) => http://www.w3.org/Style/CSS/ (5th Link) => http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-CSS2/A2. One of the style sheets is : "w3c_standard.css" which is recommended by W3 on their website.When using this tool "The Web Tailor", you take a piece out of any web page, you can view this part of the page using style sheet of your choice and also using w3c_standard.css .I told you because you might use it in a beneficial way for your own good. For example, you can use this tool to see the effects of different style sheets on a page element (or page). Perhaps it will improve your efficiency.The issue I am trying to address in my browser is how to avoid short falls if people don't follow standards.What will you do now that you bashed me about "standards" for three pages of your forum and found now that I am the one following and preaching standards as much as I possibly can?Unfortunately, "Justsomeguy" lost his temper while reporting a bug to me that he should report to Microsoft. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PrateekSaxena Posted March 16, 2007 Share Posted March 16, 2007 I think his username is a proper noun and is "justsomeguy"were you trying to be funny?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eBBee Posted March 16, 2007 Author Share Posted March 16, 2007 If a man is offered a fact which goes against his instincts, he will scrutinize it closely, and unless the evidence is overwhelming, he will refuse to believe it. If, on the other hand, he is offered something which affords a reason for acting in accordance to his instincts, he will accept it even on the slightest evidence. The origin of myths is explained in this way. Bertrand RussellI offered "aspnetguy" some evidence according to his intincts, now my guess is that he will use my software. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aspnetguy Posted March 16, 2007 Share Posted March 16, 2007 I offered "aspnetguy" some evidence according to his intincts, now my guess is that he will use my software.nice try but that solves nothing. Being able to use your own custom stylesheets does not make IE implement CSS any better. Arrogant statements like that are why I will never use you browser.What will you do now that you bashed me about "standards" for three pages of your forum and found now that I am the one following and preaching standards as much as I possibly can?Again nice try..do these sound familiar?Will this not sort out many of browsing standard problems? Creator of web page will only have to write which browsing engine this page is suitable for (or a user can select most suitable from a list) and I will display the page using that engine. If I am using IE rendering engine it means I am following standards that IE is following PLUS I have built-in advantage (in design) of communication speed as well as management of information.First off your first quote promotes not paying attention ot standards at all.Secondly IE is, for the most part, not following standards so that means you are not supporting standards! They are doing their own thing and ignoring everyone else and that is why IE is on the decline. they have slipped below 80% browser share.You openly admitted you know very little about web standards, now you claim you promote standards as much as possible??? Come on at least pick one story and stick with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aspnetguy Posted March 16, 2007 Share Posted March 16, 2007 I would gladly like to point out that IE has dropped below 80% usage and IE6 in particular has dropped below 50%http://marketshare.hitslink.com/report.asp...e=M&qpsp=97 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eBBee Posted March 16, 2007 Author Share Posted March 16, 2007 I would gladly like to point out that IE has dropped below 80% usage and IE6 in particular has dropped below 50%http://marketshare.hitslink.com/report.asp...e=M&qpsp=97 May I say that you are biased moderator, your biasness is towards IE and instead of biting on Bill Gates's ears you are chasing me for using IE.I am telling you about the facility that you can use to improve your web pages according to how they can be seen in IE. Will you go to a customer and tell him that the page you designed is according to the standards but you have to use Firefox to view this page correctly?w3c_standard.css is not a custom file it is provided by w3c to be followed, is it bad to have that mentioned in my software? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aspnetguy Posted March 16, 2007 Share Posted March 16, 2007 May I say that you are biased moderator, your biasness is towards IE and instead of biting on Bill Gates's ears you are chasing me for using IE.I am telling you about the facility that you can use to improve your web pages according to how they can be seen in IE. Will you go to a customer and tell him that the page you designed is according to the standards but you have to use Firefox to view this page correctly?w3c_standard.css is not a custom file it is provided by w3c to be followed, is it bad to have that mentioned in my software?Yes I'll give Bill a call tonight...developers have been after MS for years from this. I don't expect you to fix it, it is just a complete contrifdiction for you to, now, say you support standards when you use the IE engine.No I don't tell a client that, I develop the site to look the same in all browsers, it can be a hard job to do but it is necessary if oyu are a developer. If you knew a little more about web design then you would have made such a foolish statement.MS has admitted it's shortcomings in IE and that is why they created conditional comments to allow you to insert different code for IE to make up for it's lack of standards support.Yes I am biased toward IE and so is anyone else who has ever designed a serious web site. And you are a biased programmer because you promote IE. So what?!?Do a little research before you assume anything about a subject you are unfamiliar with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eBBee Posted March 16, 2007 Author Share Posted March 16, 2007 Yes I'll give Bill a call tonight...developers have been after MS for years from this. I don't expect you to fix it, it is just a complete contrifdiction for you to, now, say you support standards when you use the IE engine.No I don't tell a client that, I develop the site to look the same in all browsers, it can be a hard job to do but it is necessary if oyu are a developer. If you knew a little more about web design then you would have made such a foolish statement.MS has admitted it's shortcomings in IE and that is why they created conditional comments to allow you to insert different code for IE to make up for it's lack of standards support.Yes I am biased toward IE and so is anyone else who has ever designed a serious web site. And you are a biased programmer because you promote IE. So what?!?Do a little research before you assume anything about a subject you are unfamiliar with.What are you going to moderate in a "Browser Discussion" if you are biased towards a browser that has a support from 80% of users? Is the owner of this forum work for Firefox? and he specially appointed you as a moderator because of your loyalty to Firefox?When did I promote IE? I am using IE engine only because it is most widely used (80%) engine available. Do you know when last time Gecko engine was updated for users who wish to integrate it in their applications? (15/12/2005 http://www.iol.ie/~locka/mozilla/mozilla.htm).Why do you hate a browser that is used by 80%, and your job moves around browsers?Why did you join this discussion if you hate IE? Are you trying to be just a bully? Or are there only two people in this forum and you pretend that there are 6000 or so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aspnetguy Posted March 16, 2007 Share Posted March 16, 2007 Mozilla released Gecko 1.8.1.2 onFebruary 23, 2007 and are working on 1.9 for the projected Novemeber 2007 release of Firefox 3.When was the last time MS updated the IE engine? I don't know if the IE7 engine is available for .Net 3.0 but other than that the last IE engine updates were in 2001 and when ever MS release XP SP2 (couple years ago).So I am a bully for correcting your offensive and inaccurate statements about me?Yeah there is only 2 members, how did you know? (in case you don't catch on that is sarcasm)I don't consider being biased against a browser that makes my job much harder a bad thing. Maybe once IE slips far enough then MS will wake up and provide the things developers have been asking for for years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eBBee Posted March 16, 2007 Author Share Posted March 16, 2007 poor notjustbrowsing , just shows not to mess with the top 5 posters of this forums..... :)change your login name as justbrowsing and do that, you wouldnt invite so much trouble.... The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, but wiser people so full of doubts. Bertrand Russell British author, mathematician, & philosopher (1872 - 1970)Only name "NotJustBrowsing" should have been enough for some people to open up their minds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aspnetguy Posted March 16, 2007 Share Posted March 16, 2007 Did you just call yourself a fool? It is not that wiser people are full of doubts, they know better than to act without thinking of the consequences first.Nobody is going to "open up their minds" as long as you are making up your own definitions and making false claims. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nakor Posted March 16, 2007 Share Posted March 16, 2007 I don't consider being biased against a browser that makes my job much harder a bad thing. Maybe once IE slips far enough then MS will wake up and provide the things developers have been asking for for years.I agree wholeheartedly. As someone who also designs web pages I have felt the anger and frustration when I design a page and test it in Firefox and Opera and it looks good and then as soon as I open up IE everything is wrong. It's Microsoft's fault for not making standards STANDARD. For you to also disregard standards as much as you have I also have a strong dislike for your browser. This is not me saying that you haven't done anything good with it. It is definitely creative and something different, however you can't come waltzing in praising it as the best browser on the face of the planet when it will cause so many problems for so many people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eBBee Posted March 16, 2007 Author Share Posted March 16, 2007 Did you just call yourself a fool? It is not that wiser people are full of doubts, they know better than to act without thinking of the consequences first.Nobody is going to "open up their minds" as long as you are making up your own definitions and making false claims.You should try to remain within the boundaries of decent language and stop accusations. Are you trying to be better intellectual than Bertrand Russell? There is no harm in it though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aspnetguy Posted March 16, 2007 Share Posted March 16, 2007 what accusation? You are the one whole claimed to be the "fanatic" thinking outside the box and being innovative and being persecuted for your vision.Being certain of yourself doesn't make you right and taking precautions is not a bad thing either. Are you trying to be better intellectual than Bertrand Russell?to that I'll respond with your own words...You should try to remain within the boundaries of decent language and stop accusations Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jesh Posted March 16, 2007 Share Posted March 16, 2007 Did you just call yourself a fool?Hah, that's exactly what I thought when I read the Russell quote. You seem very certain of yourself NotJustBrowsing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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