Helping Norman

[Norman]

As you can see, my english isn't so good! So, I need help from you! I need help improving my english. This is my personal thread! Ok ok, for example.. I don't know wich is the right phrase to say "I'm in error/I've done an error/I've done a mistake".. or something like this. Can you help this little italian noob?

[Norman]

I will post my questions when I will have some!

[Anders Moen]

I have a great tips for you: just participate in all discussion you can here at W3Schools like I do. Then you just talk English and maybe you'll pick up some new words and all that :)My English isn't the best yet either, but for like 6 months ago I really s*bah*bah*bah in English and thanks to English forums like this, it has become better

[real_illusions]

most foreigners have better english skills than some english people...the language and grammer skill in this country is spectacularly crap

[Anders Moen]

Probably because they start with this slang (like I did for a period) and then they forget about how to write 'perfect' or something like that..not sure, just my little opinion

[Skemcin]

As you can see, my english is so good! So, I need help from you! I need help improving my english. This is my personal thread! Ok ok, for example.. I don't know wich is the right phrase to say "I'm in error/I've done an error/I've done a mistake".. or something like this. Can you help this little italian noob?

In particular, the use of that phrase or statement will be directly related to what you are talking about. For instance . . . If the error you made was in your HTML, you could say:I really screwed that up, I messed that up, I got that wrong, I didn't do that correctly, That code is filled with errorsIf the error you made was in a statement you made, you could say:I made an error in my last statement, I misspoke, I didn't mean it like that, Thats not what I meant, That didn't come out rightHope that helps.

[jesh]

"Woops, I effed up" works well too. :)Seriously though, follow the advice above - the more you use English, the better you will become at speaking and writing in English. Also, if you want feedback on your use of English, maybe you could add something to your signature that says something along the lines of:"I am learning English. If you see any errors in my grammar or spelling, please PM me to let me know."

[Jonas]

In particular, the use of that phrase or statement will be directly related to what you are talking about. For instance . . . If the error you made was in your HTML, you could say:I really screwed that up, I messed that up, I got that wrong, I didn't do that correctly, That code is filled with errorsIf the error you made was in a statement you made, you could say:I made an error in my last statement, I misspoke, I didn't mean it like that, Thats not what I meant, That didn't come out rightHope that helps.

Basically, you don't do errors or mistakes, you make them.I can also point out to Anders that "ago" is sufficient (Norwegian uses for . . . siden, like for 2 år[years] siden). English uses only "ago", never "for" to denote past-time. Other than that what Anders said is really the best advice. I joined an English forum when I was thirteen, and I can look at my posts from back then and see how my English writing has changed.

most foreigners have better english skills than some english people

You mean english or american? Because from my experience English people are much more aware of their language and how it functions than many Americans. Why this is, one can only guess. Maybe because the English get sent to bording/grammar-school and the English system is stricter. Americans frequently write a written representation of how they would say the word (phonologically so-to-speak, only without the proper IPA-system), so-called IM language, distinguished by hurried and short words/sentences. Forgive me if I'm geeking out, but I'm interested in the English language and the many variations, the decaying (although to be fair language is in constant change) etc.

[Shonumi]

Like any language, immersion is the key. I know this might sound rather inane, but T.V. really does do something with the brain, at least when it comes to retaining the sound of languages. You'd actually be surprised at how well just listening for extended periods can help you. T.V. or music, I've heard a lot of people who listen to music first and then pick up the language generally tend to be more adept at learning than someone that starts cold or even reads just a little bit already. Sound; get out and hear the words, and eventually, after much work, you'll be speaking them. I contend though, I'm American but one of the key things I hold dear is language. I'm a creative writer and poet, programming is actually a secondary passion. I've got a dictionary you could club a duck with and that's roughly 3 times my own age. Maybe it's all the Thomas Mann, Joesph Conrad and all the Jack London I read, or maybe the fact that I read at all, but not every American is illiterate. The function of language is essential, at least for me it is. Though, I think the reason why foreigners do have a slighter mastery greater than natives is that they actually must pursue an educational stance to gaining the language, whereas others have the environment which may not be as tactful as books might be.

[Jonas]

Like any language, immersion is the key. I know this might sound rather inane, but T.V. really does do something with the brain, at least when it comes to retaining the sound of languages. You'd actually be surprised at how well just listening for extended periods can help you. T.V. or music, I've heard a lot of people who listen to music first and then pick up the language generally tend to be more adept at learning than someone that starts cold or even reads just a little bit already. Sound; get out and hear the words, and eventually, after much work, you'll be speaking them.

Oh yeah, that's an important one. Music, Television, movies, that's done a lot for me.

I contend though, I'm American but one of the key things I hold dear is language. I'm a creative writer and poet, programming is actually a secondary passion. I've got a dictionary you could club a duck with and that's roughly 3 times my own age. Maybe it's all the Thomas Mann, Joesph Conrad and all the Jack London I read, or maybe the fact that I read at all, but not every American is illiterate. The function of language is essential, at least for me it is. Though, I think the reason why foreigners do have a slighter mastery greater than natives is that they actually must pursue an educational stance to gaining the language, whereas others have the environment which may not be as tactful as books might be.

Of course not every American is illiterate, far from it I think. But many (I'm talking about younger people here, the so-called "Generation Y") just don't seem to care, unless they have some special interest in the language and the written word. You can see people in College or University who can't correctly distinguish between "they're", "there" and "their", "you're" and "your" (even writing "ur", not just on IM's, but in formal texts). One thing is not being able to explain in perfect grammatical terms why you use one form and not another, but to not even know what the difference is is frightening I think. Basic grammar vocabulary like noun-verb contraction, possessive pronoun and adverb, it's not that difficult to learn it.Foreigners seem to learn English more thoroughly and properly because they don't have an assumed knowledge of the language. Just because it's one's mothertongue doesn't make one fluent.

[jesh]

Because from my experience English people are much more aware of their language and how it functions than many Americans. Why this is, one can only guess.

I am willing, as someone who was born and has grown up in the United States, to guess - Americans, for the most part, are stupid. I feel that part of this is because modern American culture emphasizes beauty, power, strength, agility, and speed over the more important attribute of intelligence. But that's just one American's guess.

[Jonas]

I am willing, as someone who was born and has grown up in the United States, to guess - Americans, for the most part, are stupid. I feel that part of this is because modern American culture emphasizes beauty, power, strength, agility, and speed over the more important attribute of intelligence. But that's just one American's guess.

LOL! I didn't want to say it, but yes, I think you nailed it.

[real_illusions]

I am willing, as someone who was born and has grown up in the United States, to guess - Americans, for the most part, are stupid. I feel that part of this is because modern American culture emphasizes beauty, power, strength, agility, and speed over the more important attribute of intelligence. But that's just one American's guess.

hehe..definatly 100% correct there :)Jonas - in reply to my original post - I mean the english, or more to the point the younger generations. Americans of any generation are generally not very intelligent with language. Although there are exceptions to this rule (like there is with every rule). The older english generation that went to school and got taught properly are a dieing breed (due to old age), the newer generations have rubbish schooling where language doesn't seem to be important anymore. Which is a shame, because i think we're all get to a point where we wont understand each other. Non-english native speakers will speak proper english (the way its supposed to be in ye olde england..well..1960-1990ish where school was half decent), and modern english from the current young generation will be talking in a completely different language..

[Jonas]

Non-english native speakers will speak proper english (the way its supposed to be in ye olde england..well..1960-1990ish where school was half decent), and modern english from the current young generation will be talking in a completely different language..

But the problem isn't speech, it's writing. The difference between an accent and a dialect is that accent is different intonation and maybe pronunciation variations, dialects have different endings, different words for things, small-to-medium grammar variations etc. The problem is making sure you make yourself understood in writing without looking like an illiterate. The spoken language changes all the time and I don't think it will become a problem so long as the written language maintains a standard. When you say "proper english" and "ye olde england", I suppose you mean something close to Received Pronunciation, BBC English or Oxford English (all names for the same "standard")? I don't see that changing fast really, as people who are on television or in teaching positions are pretty much required to follow that standard so that as many as possible understand. The Americans have the same thing, General American or American Broadcast English. That is pretty much considered "accent-less" and is little influenced by regional variations. It's written English that's going down the drain. It seems like we're going backwards. Like in the Anglo-Saxon era, when there was no standard for written English (most writing was in Latin or French), and vernacular litterature could be written differently from town to town, based on written representations of speech (oral litterature).

[real_illusions]

errrrr...ok :)written language..only the text speak used on mobile phones is going to be confusing...But thats been around for a while and so far, everything seems to be the way it was a few years ago..

[Jonas]

errrrr...ok :)written language..only the text speak used on mobile phones is going to be confusing...But thats been around for a while and so far, everything seems to be the way it was a few years ago..

If I geek out too much, stop me. :)The problem isn't a problem as long as it's kept to mobile phones and IM. The problem occurs when in "professional" texts (formal if you will), all rules and conventions for writing go out the window and people write how they would say it, over-using contractions and the like. Then you can have difficulty reading something written by another American. Say a southerner writes something how he would say it, you would have to read it with that accent and hear it like that in your head, so-to-speak. You would then have to recognise that this is in fact written by a southerner. Is that easy? No. Communications problems occur.

[real_illusions]

yeah..thats true..geek? aren't we all geeks? although some of us maybe more geeky than others :)You seem to know more about the english language than i do..and its my native language

[Jonas]

yeah..thats true..geek? aren't we all geeks? although some of us maybe more geeky than others :)You seem to know more about the english language than i do..and its my native language

All geeks, yeah, but geek is not a term written in stone.Wiki:Geek, most importantly:Modern DefinitonsLook up Nerd as well if you're interested, and compare the two terms. They are not interchangeable terms (nor are they mutually exclusive for that matter). I identify with being a geek, but not so much a nerd.Anyway, if I know more about the English language than you do, it's probably because I'm studying it on University level, I like the language and somehow, it's always come easy to me.

[Shonumi]

While we're still occupying the topic of languages, I have found it personally beneficial to learn other languages to further my own understanding of English. Spanish and Japanese have actually broadened how I come to use English, because fundamentally, to learn any other language, you have to understand your native one before others. I consider myself adept at learning things like that, and once you see how the structure of one works, you see a parallel to another. Conversely, if something totally new and unfamiliar occurs, then you get to see just how different one language is from another, which can be just as helpful. There might not be anything measurable to gauge how you are doing with this, Jonas, but you'll know once you get casual with the language. This might be a stretch, but since I am studying both human and computer languages right now, it is to my opinion that these two are close in how you learn them, at least for what I have said above. You can learn something like Javascript, but you can't exactly jump into Java right after that. Some things are the same, basic programming structures (if statements, loops, switch statements) yet for specifics, you'll have to learn exactly how the languages express things differently.

[Jonas]

There might not be anything measurable to gauge how you are doing with this, Jonas, but you'll know once you get casual with the language.

I think I'm doing quite fine, both orally and in written language. The norwegian language is a pretty good basis I think for learning English, as English is influenced by so many languages, latin, french, german and even Norwegian (viking era). I've also had 6 years of German in school, but I'm not as proficient in that as English. I listen to a lot of music, watch a lot of movies, and generally communicate a lot in English, and you know what they say about practice.

[Norman]

I have a great tips for you: just participate in all discussion you can here at W3Schools like I do. Then you just talk English and maybe you'll pick up some new words and all that

Currently, I am participating in.. mhh, I think more than ten english discussion forums, out of here. I participating in more english forums than in italian forums, my mother language (if I say mothertongue.. is the same as mother language?).

most foreigners have better english skills than some english people...the language and grammer skill in this country is spectacularly crap

Yes, I've seen it, in some other forums!

In particular, the use of that phrase or statement will be directly related to what you are talking about. For instance . . . If the error you made was in your HTML, you could say:I really screwed that up, I messed that up, I got that wrong, I didn't do that correctly, That code is filled with errorsIf the error you made was in a statement you made, you could say:I made an error in my last statement, I misspoke, I didn't mean it like that, Thats not what I meant, That didn't come out rightHope that helps.

Thanks!And for example, if I would say "If I'm not in error"? In a phrase like this: "I think that the W3S's url is http://www.w3schools.com/, if I'm not in error".

"Woops, I effed up" works well too. Seriously though, follow the advice above - the more you use English, the better you will become at speaking and writing in English. Also, if you want feedback on your use of English, maybe you could add something to your signature that says something along the lines of:"I am learning English. If you see any errors in my grammar or spelling, please PM me to let me know."

Done!

[Jonas]

Currently, I am participating in.. mhh, I think more than ten english discussion forums, out of here. I participating in more english forums than in italian forums, my mother language (if I say mothertongue.. is the same as mother language?). Yes, I've seen it, in some other forums! Thanks!And for example, if I would say "If I'm not in error"? In a phrase like this: "I think that the W3S's url is http://www.w3schools.com/, if I'm not in error". Done!

Well, mother language is really a "parent" language, that is one language that another language has evolved from, for example English, French, plus many more are derived from Latin. Mother tongue is the correct term, and can mean both (primarily) native language and (secondary) mother language.http://dictionary.reference.com/search?r=2...ther%20languagehttp://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=mother%20tongueYou can always refer to dictionary.com while writing you know, if you're in doubt. :blink:Also, I think I'd say "If I'm not mistaken."Also a useful dictionary of English idioms and phrases, searchable:http://idioms.thefreedictionary.com/

[Norman]

Thank you again!

[Norman]

Ok, another question. If I want to ask "how many time it will need?"? Wich is the best form?

[Jonas]

Ok, another question. If I want to ask "how many time it will need?"? Wich is the best form?

Depends on if you want to talk about time (millennia, centuries, decades, years, months, weeks, days, hours, minutes or seconds) or times (tries, attempts):How much time (How long) will it take?How many times (How many tries, attempts) will it take?