jeffman Posted January 18, 2011 Share Posted January 18, 2011 (edited) Four things would have to happen for this thing to work.1. A dedicated core of geeks needs to form some basic agreements. Yes, I'm thinking of "us," whoever we are, but not limiting it to us. Other people on this board are pretty competent, and some of them are even female. Plus, a lot of you have other contacts. Some vetting would have to happen, but that's another conversation.2. The core group decides on design principles and basic philosophies. We work on some mock-ups.3. This part takes some time. We get ONE simple thing done really, really well. Probably a tag reference. It needs to be as good as W3Schools and maybe even better, just to show the power of a wiki. I have ideas on that, but they're not important now. We'll call this product "proof of concept."4. It all builds up to this. We approach Refsnes Data with "proof of concept" and a modest proposal. No contracts, no promises. Just a little talk about what a future relationship could possibly entail. (Emphasis on cooperation, not competition.) What we ask for is a link from their site to the wiki. As EVERYONE seems to be saying, this whole conversation exists because of W3Schools' SEO rankings.Without a link to the highest ranked WebDev site, this project vanishes into the shadows. With a link, it has a serious chance.At that point, we open things up a bit. Edited January 18, 2011 by Deirdre's Dad Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thescientist Posted January 18, 2011 Share Posted January 18, 2011 (edited) I definitely think it has some potential, as long as there as a degree of consistency to it, that focuses on best practices and standards (naturally) and has a core group of (as DD emphasized) vetted contributors and "editors". ShadowMage brought up a good suggestion of having a comments section like on php.net. Edited January 18, 2011 by thescientist Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boen_robot Posted January 18, 2011 Share Posted January 18, 2011 If you ask me, step 4 must be step 1... what's the point of doing the rest without W3Schools' blessing? If they don't want to create a wiki themselves (like wiki.w3schools.com), that's fine, but as said, we still need them to at least "endorse" another wiki made in their honor. And as said, if the answer is explicit "No way", that's fine too, but then the whole plan falls apart. boen_robot, you're famous at times like this, I wish I had a blog. (I don't want to use a premade CMS, yet I never have enough spare time to set aside to make a good blogging system... add on that the fact I'm my hardest client to satisfy...) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShadowMage Posted January 18, 2011 Share Posted January 18, 2011 (edited) If you ask me, step 4 must be step 1... what's the point of doing the rest without W3Schools' blessing? If they don't want to create a wiki themselves (like wiki.w3schools.com), that's fine, but as said, we still need them to at least "endorse" another wiki made in their honor. And as said, if the answer is explicit "No way", that's fine too, but then the whole plan falls apart.Actually, I think DD has the right order. I think they would be more likely to give their "blessing" if they had a "proof of concept" as DD put it, that they could look at. It would not be any where near a completed project, but simply one very small portion of the project. Like the tag reference, as DD mentioned. And even that would not have to be a complete tag reference. It would only have to include maybe 10 to 20 tags, just enough to demonstrate how it will work.This would also demonstrate a dedication to making this project work. Edited January 18, 2011 by ShadowMage Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Synook Posted January 18, 2011 Share Posted January 18, 2011 I do wonder how willing W3Schools would be to part with their IP, though. It's very hard to have restrictive copyright on wiki content, especially when people are contributing new content. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeffman Posted January 19, 2011 Share Posted January 19, 2011 Part with their IP? Anyway, this project could never replace the existing site till it had at least as much information available. That could be a while, especially if Refsnes Data keeps adding material the way they have been.I would imagine the two sites existing side-by-side for a while, same way this board does. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Synook Posted January 19, 2011 Share Posted January 19, 2011 Sorry – I meant intellectual property. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeffman Posted January 19, 2011 Share Posted January 19, 2011 I think they would have to choose if and how much. It could be their books sales generate enough income that it wouldn't be a problem. It could also be that the format decided on would require significant changes to the language. It could be they are willing to sponsor the wiki without making contributions at all.I don't think we want to assume too many specific outcomes for the project, especially since wikis can be so unpredictable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShadowMage Posted January 19, 2011 Share Posted January 19, 2011 So, when is this thing going down? Is there a plan? I'd very much like to help with whatever I can, whenever I can. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeffman Posted January 19, 2011 Share Posted January 19, 2011 You've read everything that's been posted.I'm thinking of taking MediaWiki for a test drive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vytas Posted January 19, 2011 Share Posted January 19, 2011 Turtle, maybe there are some errors in the w3schools their site, but none the less w3schools whas a great place to start learning the html markup language and a good step to the more sophisticated languages. W3Fools is not in the place to be so negative about w3schools, because clearly all they can do is criticize. People don't have to choose w3schools, they choose w3schools because it's neat and orderly. When I whas learning html, w3schools wasn't the only place I looked for information I followed alot of articles and tutorials to get the hang of it. The article is just rubbish, it should be removed from the internet, you should go ask the forum members here if they like the site or not, and if w3schools has helped them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thescientist Posted January 19, 2011 Share Posted January 19, 2011 the article, while overly critical and at sometimes petty, does bring up some legitimate points. The idea going forward to is to consolidate all the best practices and references in one good spot and maintain it from there; which is what the thread is attempting to do in light of our reaction to w3fools. The web is big enough for everyone, it's just a matter of what you do and how you present yourself on it. (much like in real life). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trinistorm Posted January 19, 2011 Share Posted January 19, 2011 On the W3schools about page they invite linking to their site. Perhaps a w3schoolsfans wiki could be established or something of that nature that links and provides additional material on the content at W3schools. If its a hit the owners could be approached for more integration. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjsulliv Posted January 20, 2011 Share Posted January 20, 2011 BTW, I wish they mentioned something about the forum...I perused all the "better" sites that the site points to as alternatives to w3schools; none appeared to me to have a "SET" forum near as complete as w3schools. Some didn't even have forums! I'd be lost without the forums.--- Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thescientist Posted January 20, 2011 Share Posted January 20, 2011 I perused all the "better" sites that the site points to as alternatives to w3schools; none appeared to me to have a "SET" forum near as complete as w3schools. Some didn't even have forums! I'd be lost without the forums.--- Mikeagreed! I think the forums here provide an integral companion to the material taught on the w3schools site. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shadowayex Posted January 31, 2011 Share Posted January 31, 2011 One thing I noticed is that W3Fools never once said anything about trying to work with W3Schools to fix the problems. Instead, they look like they're taking an approach to destroy W3Schools' credibility and have it replaced.I think it would be worthwhile for them to try to work with W3Schools to correct the information. W3Schools has already corrected quite a bit of stuff; some of the things that W3Fools complains about (and have not done the strike out to) have already been addressed. It seems W3Schools is working fast to correct itself than W3Fools can check it's own information for accuracy. This tells me that if the W3Fools people would just take a route of reforming W3Schools rather than destroying it, it would be a very nice outcome.W3Schools even stats in their About section: Help Us Correct Errors and Broken LinksWe are working very hard to make this Web site interesting, useful, and correct. If you find an error or a broken link please tell us about it.Tell us about spelling mistakes and grammatical errors (it is not easy to be a Norwegian in an English-speaking world).To notify us about errors, please send an e-mail to:Mail toNote: Solving individual coding problems is not our priority. We believe that we should use all our time to write better tutorials for our readers.W3Fools is right in that there are issues with the information on W3Schools, but I believe that W3Fools is wrong in their approach. It would be way more effective and beneficial to work to correct W3Schools, given the vasts amount of traffic it receives with novices and even some seasoned users looking for a quick reference.I wanted to address this with the writers of W3Fools, but I do not have Twitter, and I do not plan on making one just for this. It'd be helpful for them to provide a way to contact them without forcing the users to use a social network that they may not be a part of. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sharkadder Posted September 1, 2011 Share Posted September 1, 2011 w3fools sounds American to me...not to stereotype, most American's are decent people but it's normally a bored idiot from there who create websites slating other people. Do people have bothing better to do? If there is a problem on w3schools then why not just e-mail them/post on here and just say say "this, that and t'other is wrong, can you please fix it?" Why bother being so bored you want to create a new website just bsically causing chaos...somebody obviously has a lot of time on their hands.Besides, w3fools website doesn't even look good, looks like it was created in front page by some teenager who has clearly not grown up fully yet. How much vertical scrolling do they need? The only type of websites that can get away with that are forums, online stores, and social networking websites.I just don't see why they needed to create another website linking to other places when they could have just been helpful and posted on here any problems instead of slating a website millions of people use in order to learn the basics of website design/development. They're obviously just trying to trive traffic away or some rubbish, i think they should spend their time more wisely and create a website to do something useful. One thing I noticed is that W3Fools never once said anything about trying to work with W3Schools to fix the problems. Instead, they look like they're taking an approach to destroy W3Schools' credibility and have it replaced.I think it would be worthwhile for them to try to work with W3Schools to correct the information. W3Schools has already corrected quite a bit of stuff; some of the things that W3Fools complains about (and have not done the strike out to) have already been addressed. It seems W3Schools is working fast to correct itself than W3Fools can check it's own information for accuracy. This tells me that if the W3Fools people would just take a route of reforming W3Schools rather than destroying it, it would be a very nice outcome.W3Schools even stats in their About section:W3Fools is right in that there are issues with the information on W3Schools, but I believe that W3Fools is wrong in their approach. It would be way more effective and beneficial to work to correct W3Schools, given the vasts amount of traffic it receives with novices and even some seasoned users looking for a quick reference.I wanted to address this with the writers of W3Fools, but I do not have Twitter, and I do not plan on making one just for this. It'd be helpful for them to provide a way to contact them without forcing the users to use a social network that they may not be a part of. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skemcin Posted September 1, 2011 Share Posted September 1, 2011 w3fools sounds American to me...not to stereotype, most American's are decent people but it's normally a bored idiot from there who create websites slating other people. Do people have bothing better to do? If there is a problem on w3schools then why not just e-mail them/post on here and just say say "this, that and t'other is wrong, can you please fix it?" Why bother being so bored you want to create a new website just bsically causing chaos...somebody obviously has a lot of time on their hands.Besides, w3fools website doesn't even look good, looks like it was created in front page by some teenager who has clearly not grown up fully yet. How much vertical scrolling do they need? The only type of websites that can get away with that are forums, online stores, and social networking websites.I just don't see why they needed to create another website linking to other places when they could have just been helpful and posted on here any problems instead of slating a website millions of people use in order to learn the basics of website design/development. They're obviously just trying to trive traffic away or some rubbish, i think they should spend their time more wisely and create a website to do something useful.Everything is a matter of perspective. One could easily debate there (w3fools) approach is not the most appropriate way to initiate change. But the simple fact is, if there is misinformation, errors, or any other inaccuracies they should be fixed. The authors of w3schools are making changes and corrections. It may be one's opinion that these changes are taking too much time - but they are being made and that is surely better than them not.Here are a couple articles dating back to the beginning of the year when this was "in the news" that might be of interest to some:W3Fools Takes on W3SchoolsW3Schools Responds to W3FoolsWhat is comforting to me, having been associated with w3schools (particularly the launch and success of the forums), is that this has not turned into a mud slinging battle. I respect Kai Jim and the rest of w3schools authors/staff for not getting sucked into what could have easily turned into a situation that would really turn people off. Instead, the response to the criticism (whether you like the angle or not) has been well played and everyone benefits - w3schools.com is being updated, w3fools mission/egos are being served, but most importantly the end user (the web development community) is getting the best, most user friendly collection of online web development tutorials. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eTianbun Posted June 17, 2012 Share Posted June 17, 2012 If these guys (w3fools.com) are so Good in what they claim to know? Then why dont they just create a site, which provides the accurate data, instead of critisizing the ones at w3schools.com? Funny! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ingolme Posted June 17, 2012 Share Posted June 17, 2012 They pretty much answered that question on their own site: They're jealous of W3Schools' Google rankings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eTianbun Posted June 17, 2012 Share Posted June 17, 2012 They pretty much answered that question on their own site: They're jealous of W3Schools' Google rankings. Lol, true bro. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eTianbun Posted June 17, 2012 Share Posted June 17, 2012 They pretty much answered that question on their own site: They're jealous of W3Schools' Google rankings. Lol, true bro. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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