Jonas

Browser Discussion

501 posts in this topic

I think xp is ok, there's been worse!!You can customise your startup/shutdown and just about any other sounds.Open Control Panel > Sounds and Audio Devices > Sounds Tab. In program events you can change sounds around and use your own :)Or search google for free windows xp themes.

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Yer! I have changed mine but i get really fussy and change it too often and by that point im totally bored of the whole thing!!Windows ME (or 2000...i forget!) was the worst!! What was it...its was basically 98...but with a bit better load times and Office tools!Sorry for making us go off topic! :)

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So with browsers...Open Source VS Closed.I really like FF because its open source, If there is something I don't like I can just go change it! I know not everyone has the power or knowlege to change it but its nice (everyone here should be at lease a web programmer.)

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Ok whats the difference :)

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Ok whats the difference :)

Normally, a program such as Internet Explorer, MS Word, Windows even or any other kind of application that you can imagine is compiled into files which only the OS can read and manipulate. Their functions and all are predefined by the author and "packed" into the respective files.When a program is Open Source however, the code from which the application was compiled, is avaiable to the public. That way, everyone who has skills in the used language (most often C++) can edit every major and minor aspect of the application and recompile his new version.I personally don't care for open source-nes scince I don't have C++ skills anyway though :) .[edit] Yes. Linux is oper source. That's why there are so many versions of it, each with it's own specifics. [/edit]

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Is Linux Open source :) Anyway...thanks :) I learnt alot from that!! :)

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A truly "interesting", I guess you could say, site in the browser war. Interesting as in what lengths people will go to to cut IE's market percentage:http://www.explorerdestroyer.com/They're actually paying people 1$ per person they convert from IE to Firefox. Should be a good offer for those who want people to use Firefox.

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Personally I hate the idea. I surf with a combo of IE anf FF and occasionally Opera.If I where to browse to a site that won't let me view unless I switched to FF I would write that site off and never return even though I already have FF. It is very unprofessional, childish (my toys are better than yours).If they can't be bothered to take the extra time to make their site compatible then I don't think they deserve quality traffic (at least not mine anyways), Thats my opinion on ExplorerDestroyer.I personally hate Netscape but I haven't started a campaign to destroy it (then again Netscape did a good job of destroying themseleves lol).

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ExplorerDestroyer is a little agressive. I like this site, it adds humor:http://www.killbillsbrowser.com/I'm with the camp who, if IE were a person, I would try to physically hurt it. Repeatedly. Until it stops moving. And then I would run over it with my car. A few times..My own browser of choice is Opera. I use Firefox for some minor things, but Opera is it for me. I prefer to have everything I use built-in, as opposed to Firefox's legion of extensions. What I'm saying is if Opera were a woman, I would attempt to copulate with it.Also, about the whole "notify Microsoft about IE problems or you can't complain" thing. That's not true, because I still have to use IE. Not as a user, but as a developer. I have to support IE, therefore I have a license to whine about it's problems. Also, I don't think notifying Microsoft would have any effect. The things I'm concerned about are standards compliance, I don't use IE so I don't care how non-secure it is. I don't think notifying Microsoft about standards will do anything, because they are on their own schedule and have their own priorities, and it doesn't seem like they will change either of those based on user response. I think Jonas was absolutely correct, the best way to get Microsoft to produce a browser that plays nice with everything else is to threaten it's position as the dominant browser. Microsoft doesn't respond to "please", it responds to threats. The reason Microsoft is developing IE7 right now (instead of leaving IE6 where it lay, like they originally intended) is because of Firefox, plain and simple. The reason that IE7 has support for tabs isn't because some developer at Microsoft had a great idea, it's because they were implemented in Opera, and then Firefox, and MS realized that it was becoming a major reason why users were switching from IE. They aren't trying to make a "better user experience", they are responding to a threat. Now that only goes for management, the developers working at Microsoft are in fact real people (users, even) who are doing things for the betterment of the user base. But they aren't the ones making the decisions about what goes in (tabs) and what doesn't (CSS support).

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"Honey, I found a new business partner in Nigeria but I can't email him our bank account info because the internet is broken...""The Secret Service called this morning and said that our computer sent 20,000 scatalogical emails to the President...""Pies just make him more determined, but Firefox steals his mojo."
:)
The things I'm concerned about are standards compliance, I don't use IE so I don't care how non-secure it is. I don't think notifying Microsoft about standards will do anything, because they are on their own schedule and have their own priorities, and it doesn't seem like they will change either of those based on user response.Microsoft doesn't respond to "please", it responds to threats.
I couldn't have put it better myself.

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Sweet. Not that that will make me buy Nintendo. I'm a solid Sony console fan, so playstation it is for me. Still cool though. :)

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I'm not much of a console fan in general. And I have a deep, personal hatred for Sony, so I don't care how cool the PS is, I refuse to give those people a dime. They aren't going to use my money to crap all over my rights. And whoever thought up the name "Wii" needs to get hit in the face with a brick. Actually no, the executive who actually thought about and then approved the name "Wii" needs to be hit in the face with a brick, and forcefully retired. Yeah, that's better.

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I wonder what will happen when IE7 comes out...It has tabs, so the classical reason for "having one window for all reasons" will fall.IE6 with SP2 already has a pop-up blocker, so that's not an argument either.IE7 will have some kind of "phishing filter" which is somehow a secuiry improvement, not to mention the lot of bug and security fixes, so secirity at first is not going to be an issue (I repeat: at first... later on, it most probably will be).Standarts supports... though IE7 is going to have some new things in this area, it's still not going to be as good as FF. But there is a huge "but" here (excuse the pun): end users don't care for standarts support and it's never among their arguments when trying to say why they like a certain browser.Faster browser... hm... I don't know... I seem to be unable to notice a difference between IE6 and FF and IE7 will probably not be much faster. I do however notice a huge difference between IE6 and Opera but that's out of the question.Extensions... IE7 is suppose to have a lot of built in funtionality such as RSS reader like the one in Opera and Microsft is probably going to make some plug-ins. Yes, FF is going to remain with more extensions allowing it a lot more funtionality, but hey, IE is not an open source browser after all. Besides, business users would prefer a less expandable browser.[edit] Actually, I just found a site full of extensions (add-ons to be exact) for IE7 right at http://www.ieaddons.com[/edit]

Edited by boen_robot

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wow...right on!!! That is why I think programs like Exploere Destroyer are going to back fire....user don't care...they just want the content they are looking for...if developers start messing around and trying ot force users to switch they are going to get annoyed and just leave. I think FF will continue to be a big favorite among developers and some advanced users but the majority will not care.

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Personally, I don't care about tabbed browsing. Not that I exactly know what it is, while I have only IE and no FF, but I hate the idea of losing ALT+TAB :)It is the mouse interface replacement, that actually comes really in handy when you work with both mouse and keyboard, as I do. Most people just don't know you can do almost everything with the keyboard that you normally would with the mouse..Anyway, the security lead of FF doesn't really mean it is better than IE. The fact just is that IE is more used, it is the standard of windows after all. So hackers and all other evil-intended prefer more doing harm to IE than to FF. If it was the other way around, FF would be the target and most likely also be in the disadvantage, people can do anything they like if they just want it. Offence is the best defence, so if you really want to defend yourself against the wide network threats, go bad yourself. Go and see what it all means, and try to override the traffic system or what. Then you know what security is all about, how the threat works and how it can be overpowered.Next, not that I am particular a Microsoft fan, but IE gets my preference. :) It is the same program windows itself uses to browse; Internet Explorer is identical to Windows Explorer! The protocol is the only difference, in WE "file" is the standard, while in IE, "http" is. However, they both can be override, when that occurs, the browsers replace themselves by eachother. A big advantage to Internet Explorer, in my opinion :)

Edited by Dan The Prof

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Have any of you used WebPage Spy for IE? I've had it on my system for close to 2 years now, and I've built GreaseMonkey style extensions into my IE for ages, without a word and accessible from the right-click menu. I use Maxthon with IE7 Beta 2 (to combat the awful layout of IE7) and it increases the functionality no end. I couldn't live without my click-drag new tab function that Maxthon has, and i'm sure every other browser will be "supporting" (read, ripping off) it soon.I prefer Opera over Firefox too, to be honest.

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And I have a deep, personal hatred for Sony, so I don't care how cool the PS is, I refuse to give those people a dime. They aren't going to use my money to crap all over my rights.

Because of the rootkit stuff, right? Yeah, that really sucks. I'm still going to buy PS3 though, just no Sony CD's or music devices.
Personally, I don't care about tabbed browsing. Not that I exactly know what it is, while I have only IE and no FF, but I hate the idea of losing ALT+TAB :)

You wouldn't lose ALT+TAB. :) You still have ALT+TAB to switch between programs on the windows taskbar, and then you also have CTRL+TAB to switch between browser windows. :) I love tabs. There's nothing more annoying to me than having 5-6 browser windows open at the same time, which I often need to have. Tabs are brilliant.

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There's nothing more annoying to me than having 5-6 browser windows open at the same time, which I often need to have.
Have you experienced Windows XP 'Group Similar Task Buttons' crap...it is even more irritating.

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Have you experienced Windows XP 'Group Similar Task Buttons' crap...it is even more irritating.

Oh yeah. I had forgotten about that, I turned it off so quickly when I noticed it... :)

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Oh yeah. I had forgotten about that, I turned it off so quickly when I noticed it... :)

me too...i hate it so much :)

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But we digress...I think the topic was browser discussion, not OS discussion. :)

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Because of the rootkit stuff, right?
That was sort of the last straw. Sony has always been a bad company. They make high-quality products, but unfortunately they cripple the majority of them. One of the things that irritates me most is their insistence to create their own standards. Betamax, minidisc, ATRAC, UMD, memory stick, etc etc etc. And now Blu-Ray. Can't wait for that one, I expect that Blu-Ray will have so much DRM on it that I will open the DVD package and the disk will instantly explode (I'm only kidding, I'll never own a Blu-Ray disk). They create their own standards that only work on their own devices and then try to screw their customers. That's what irritates me, the screwing their customers part. It's like the company has genuine malice towards the people who give them money. They stomp all over consumers and generally act however they want to act, and apparently expect people to lay down for them. The rootkit just sort of highlighted that fact, that Sony actually does not care about their customers' happiness. And if that's not bad enough, they turn it around and try to spin that they are helping their customers by the things they are doing. I saw a quote (can't find it now) where the Sony shill in question was saying that the reason that Sony uses DRM technology is to help the consumer manage their experience. Like that's a huge problem. It's a major problem that I can buy some arbitrary CD and play it on my Ipod, so I'm really glad that Sony has stepped in to make that not possible, it really helps me manage everything. I don't know about you guys, but I didn't have any problems managing my experience when I could play any of my music on any of my music players. The fact is that DRM is to help Sony manage the consumer's experience, the consumer doesn't manage anything.
<DmncAtrny> I will write on a huge cement block "BY ACCEPTING THIS BRICK THROUGH YOUR WINDOW, YOU ACCEPT IT AS IS AND AGREE TO MY DISCLAIMER OF ALL WARRANTIES, EXPRESS OR IMPLIED, AS WELL AS DISCLAIMERS OF ALL LIABILITY, DIRECT, INDIRECT, CONSEQUENTIAL OR INCIDENTAL, THAT MAY ARISE FROM THE INSTALLATION OF THIS BRICK INTO YOUR BUILDING."<DmncAtrny> And then hurl it through the window of a Sony officer<DmncAtrny> and run like ######
Sorry, what were we talking about again?

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Next, I have another argument for why I stick to IE instead of FF,in FireFox javascripts are disabled, for as far as I've heard... And that is just no good... :)Even users may be able to download extensions that do support scripts, the average user doesn't do that.

Edited by Dan The Prof

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