Jonas

Browser Discussion

501 posts in this topic

Next, I have another argument for why I stick to IE instead of FF,in FireFox javascripts are disabled, for as far as I've heard... And that is just no good... :)Even users may be able to download extensions that do support scripts, the average user doesn't do that.

You heard wrong...

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I downloaded FireFox and used it right away and Javascript was not disabled!!! Where id you hear that???

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Nevermind lol :) I don't know everything :)

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Next, I have another argument for why I stick to IE instead of FF,in FireFox javascripts are disabled, for as far as I've heard... And that is just no good... :)

What? Javascripts are disabled in firefox? :)Either way, there's still Opera. :)

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javascript is not disabled in FF

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Yeah, didn't really think so. Sounded a bit funny...

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Therefor I too thought it couldn't be good :)Anyway, I don't like it when my windows get adjusted by the browser, I just want to have my own controll, and no stupid tabs (no offence to the ones that love them :))

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Dan, why don't you just download and install Firefox and Opera and give them a try, or at least for testing? If you're going to be developing for the web you will probably want to have them available for testing. At least you'll know what you're working with. And along the way you'll probably realize that IE sucks donkey ######.edit: tabs are an option. You don't have to use them. Things being optional is the point, in IE you don't have the option.cmon dan. everyone's doing it. all the cool kids are doing it. you want to be cool, don't you?

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I want to be myself :) I never liked to have alternates >-<Also about others having them :)So no, please. I'll stay with IE for now. There are more things to do other than crossbrowser issues, after all, I program by hand :)

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There are more things to do other than crossbrowser issues, after all, I program by hand
I think most people on here program by hand. Some people might use their feet, I'm not sure. But don't you want to make sure that your code works everywhere?
I never liked to have alternates
Well then IE is the browser for you, because there are no choices for you to make.

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Sorry, I was not completely clear, I meant everything by hand, such as php (logically) but also occasional javascript, html, xhtml and css. Maybe indeed most people do so, but there are also many less advanced that only use editors like frontpage or so :) Besides, I write everything myself, each letter, being perfectionist...About alternates, there are many different Messengers, mail services, browsers, operating systems, whatever. For every software is an alternate. I just hate that :blink: I prefer only one of all, not because I don't like the rest, but also because everyone would get the same :blink:Stupid conpetitors :)And that is only one of the reasons I don't start using another browser, I also prefer to have my pc fully clean of alternates and rubbish, just as organised as I like it :blink: I hope I did not offend you :) (its my english as second language that makes it hard for me to explain this)

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Sorry, I was not completely clear, I meant everything by hand, such as php (logically) but also occasional javascript, html, xhtml and css. Maybe indeed most people do so, but there are also many less advanced that only use editors like frontpage or so :) Besides, I write everything myself, each letter, being perfectionist...About alternates, there are many different Messengers, mail services, browsers, operating systems, whatever. For every software is an alternate. I just hate that :blink: I prefer only one of all, not because I don't like the rest, but also because everyone would get the same :blink:Stupid conpetitors :)And that is only one of the reasons I don't start using another browser, I also prefer to have my pc fully clean of alternates and rubbish, just as organised as I like it :blink: I hope I did not offend you :) (its my english as second language that makes it hard for me to explain this)

Whether you code xhtml/css by hand or you make it in an editor, there's still no guarantee that it'll look the same in all browsers. Even if you write each letter by hand (which most people who code from scratch do, with perhaps the exception of copying/pasting doctypes), well, that doesn't help. You still ought to check your webdocuments in all browsers, or you'll risk it being completely off in some browsers.You hate alternatives, because you feel it is better that everyone gets the same. That makes sense, and yet at the same time it doesn't. I can't believe you would say "Stupid competitors". Really, competition is good. It is what ensures we get the best, at the lowest prices, be it in agriculture, technology, services etc.Your computer is only as organised as you make it. You should not so easily equate alternative programs with rubbish. There is a lot of rubbish to get put on a computer, but you need to learn how to distinguish one thing from another. I have lots of different media players (windows media player, iTunes, MusicMatch, Quicktime), browsers (Opera, Firefox, IE), Image manipulation programs (MSPaint, Paint.Net, Photoshop), and yet I still manage to keep my desktop well organised. It's a matter of making a system for yourself.

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Completely agree Jonas. I run IE7, FireFox and Opera on my system, and am looking at installing older versions of IE (predominantly 4 and 5.5) as well as backdated Mozilla and Opera side-by-side for compatibility reasons. I also run Konqueror, Opera, Epiphany and FireFox on my linux setup.I think it might be going slightly far to say you should have all of them installed as standard.. but to be honest, we've passed the world where everyone was using the latest IE on the latest windows, and we should be attempting to cater for everyone if we're going to be creating sites. I'd much rather make my websites viewable in all browsers than code to XHTML 1.1, and in an ideal situation i'd like both.I still think if you're going to run IE though, you should be running the Maxthon extension on top of it. But that's just my personal thought.. I was an Avant fan two years ago, but I think Maxthon's development has surpassed it.

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we should be attempting to cater for everyone if we're going to be creating sites
Well, most people anyway. I got a call from a customer once who was complaining that the site wasn't working on their computer. I ask them what browser, and they say AOL Internet Explorer for Mac. I almost choked. I didn't know how to break it to them that their browser would never be supported.

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About alternates, there are many different Messengers, mail services, browsers, operating systems, whatever. For every software is an alternate.I just hate that :) I prefer only one of all, not because I don't like the rest, but also because everyone would get the same :)

And what's wrong with that? I want choice - everyone does, i like to choose what to wear, what car i will buy, my computer is no different.
Stupid conpetitors :)

Go back and read what Jonas said.

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Well, most people anyway.  I got a call from a customer once who was complaining that the site wasn't working on their computer.  I ask them what browser, and they say AOL Internet Explorer for Mac.  I almost choked.  I didn't know how to break it to them that their browser would never be supported.

Are we even allowed to call that a "browser"? It's more like a "stopper" :) :)

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AOL IE for Mac: the Anti-Browser.

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My School just god firefox and people in my class were like "Hey, they have a new internet out... this one is much better..."I tried to tell them it was a browser used for surfing the internet but they said I was stupid and didn't know what I was talking about..I'm sorry, I don't know what I was thinking... Man, Microsoft just comes out with great things like Google and now Firefox... what will they think of next (I guess were lucky they found the ON button. Anyone of them would make a good President! )

AOL IE for Mac: the Anti-Browser. :) :)

Did you just say IE and Mac in the same sentience??

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It is not the fact I would have many alternates on my computer that makes me feel disorganised, nor the many icons on my desktop (that now equals five), but the big Program Files folder.I know it is my own resposibility to organise the pc I am working on, and that is what I do everytime. But more like I get the feeling my pc is full of alternative programs. I don't say having different browsers is stupid, or not neccesary for site building, but it feels not good to have many alternates to the same thing, it makes me feel my computer is full of stuff I don't use, or that is useless or never used.So I am not telliny you I hate the different browsers itself, but having different browsers at all. Same for media players and messengers. An example. A few years I got myself an alternate messenger, but that was because of something I needed that the current one didn't offer, and now it is the other way around, so I came back to MSN messenger and the other messenger I don't use anymore. And just like Windows Messenger compared to MSN Messenger, I will never use it while I am using the other. In the mean time, I deleted the messenger lol.I really, REALLY like it when I was able to compare these browsers, don't get me wrong. I am curious to know what the output will differ. But still, I just don't want several things of the same type, period. I just wait untill circomstances are different, and having such would not bother me anymore.You're actually right competition is good, in case of shops it makes the ware cheap and with a higher quallity, but in case of browsers I think it is more adding useless functionality, or adding things that are not standard. I compare it with a dumm rush to the best html elements supported, like <blink> and <marquee>, which should not exist in strict docs, they are style elements. Actually, it is kind of stupid I guess, they compete to have the best things, kind of childish maybe, but that is only my opinion. And I won't turn against you :) If you feel the other way around, I won't complain.

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but in case of browsers I think it is more adding useless functionality, or adding things that are not standard.
Err... isn't Opera the best standards browser, followed by Firefox? (I forget which way around it is.. seems to change every new version). I think IE's JScript language is the biggest non-standard, and their implementation of DXTransform.I'm not really sure what you're getting at.. but sounds like you need Linux. If you're looking to modify where every program installs itself in whatever folder.. I think that's for you. Or even a Mac....

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I was ghetting at the race between Netscape and Microsoft :)IE is based on a version of Mozilla I think, all in all, most browsers are based on something from the early years or from later. I don't know what happened to NN, but aty least it was NN and IE that were competing adding functionality. I don't say every browser adds uselessness exept IE, but the idea that they're all different makes it :)I am actually not an Linux guy. I need an interface like windows, I don't really like playing with direct commands like in linux. I am pleased with Windows, so why bother going elseways with mac or whatever? I like the way windows handles folders etcetera.

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Dan, why don't you just download and install Firefox and Opera and give them a try, or at least for testing?  If you're going to be developing for the web you will probably want to have them available for testing.  At least you'll know what you're working with.  And along the way you'll probably realize that IE sucks donkey ######.edit: tabs are an option.  You don't have to use them.  Things being optional is the point, in IE you don't have the option.cmon dan.  everyone's doing it.  all the cool kids are doing it.  you want to be cool, don't you?

That is true you need to use them at least for testing. Dan the site (pinkvalley...or something) you were asking for help with a while back....it looked horrible in FF...that reflects on you as a designer.

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That is true you need to use them at least for testing. Dan the site (pinkvalley...or something) you were asking for help with a while back....it looked horrible in FF...that reflects on you as a designer.

I know, thats why I would like to be able to test in those browsers, as I said above. But that will have to wait. Fortunately, I can say many Dutch just only use IE, as we are still a little country, and the (actually English) site was meant for Dutch. I do not know the details of the group it was for, but I am sure it does not get a big audience :) Pure simpleness :) Besides, I had not designed the page, she did. I only transformed her picture into (x)html :blink:When I am ready for an upgrade for my computer, or at least more time, I will look into the possibilities that lay ahead in browsers, only just not right now. And next I will always hate having more than one, unless I use them all too :)

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Stupid conpetitors
WOW if it weren't for competition we would still be using IE2. It forces everyone to put out the best product they can.
A few years I got myself an alternate messenger
We are not talking about methods to chat with your friends here...we are talking about browsers...if you call yourself a designer you should take pride in your work...that means making it work for as many people as you can.What you are saying is like Me creating this awesome game, but only configuring it to work on Intel Processors...oh well screw AMD...I don't like them (actually it is the other way around).You are throwing away a huge chunck of the internet market by only making your pages for IE.

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