Hi,
It will be a great idea to put WhizBase Server Pages on w3schools Forum and site, it is very fast growing scripting language.
What do you think?

I've never heard of it. Can you show more information about it?

WBSP, (WhizBase Server Pages) is a general-purpose scripting tool (hypertext preprocessor) for Web development and can be embedded into HTML, XHTML, XML, RTF, ASCII, JavaScript, VBScript and any other text based file format.

Its syntax is different from any programming language like C, Java, Perl, VB, and also form other hypertext preprocessors like PHP or ASP. It is easy to learn, and has very short learning curve before one can produce useful results.

You can find more info on www.whizbase.com about it, I am using it for a while and it is super for fast and intranet development, and it is very secure.

I haven't heard of it either. It would be interesting to see some real-world websites where it has been deployed...

Interesting. But, like any other scripting language, there are two key factors into having them represented on w3schools.com.
a.) the hosting service provides the scripting language as an option to the account
b.) the owners of w3schools.com have the internal resources and knowledge to create tutorials for the language.

Its nice to bring these to the attention of the owners but I suspect nothing will be able to be pursued. However, as administrators and moderators to the discussion board, we've worked around this having "forums" created for them. Like with ColdFusion, a sticky was created with all the "how to get started" and basic "tutorials" linked. If you would like something similar done here, then we can look into that.

The creator of the language sure seems to have found good use for it with their clients. But, I know this industry enough to realize that can also be a very sophisticated way to retain business. I won't go off topic there, but lets just say that not a far fetched possibility.

P.S. I will note that it does seem rather limited when compared to asp (.net), php, and coldfusion. One trouble it will have is one similar to ColdFusion's, you have to pay for it. There doesn't seem to be a developer license (single IP). So I'm not sure how this is going to be received if you have to pay to play.

If the language is going to compete, it needs a comparison chart to show its depth of functionality and its gonna at least have a free single IP developer license. Otherwise I would suspect it would remain proprietary.



Goto http://www.dws.ba/

Once you figure out their web interface, they have a "our work" section. Here are some of the links they provide:
http://www.bosnalijek.ba/eng/
http://www.rtvfbih.ba/loc/
http://www.brijest.ba/loc/

All using it it some form and apparently exclusively. However, there are a few of their portfolio sites that use PHP. Another hint to some real world limitation.

From what I'm reading, it seems to be dedicated exclusively to managing content obtained from a database. It doesn't do all the rest of the things that other server-side languages can do.

You have a very good point Skemcin thank you, I am using this scripting language for a while now, I have downloaded the engine from their site and I am using it freely on .org domains, they have multiple licenses. The only problem now is there is no enough hosting companies providing that service yet, but it is very easy to learn, I needed 3 days to learn it as a PHP developer.

The thing I like most in it is the time needed to develop a website, I am working with PHP for almost 7 years, but in PHP you need more time to develop a simple website and a lot more of code, in WhizBase I can make a website with the same speed and quality for less time. For most of my clients they want only to publish their self's online, they do not need any complicated applications so I do not need PHP, WhizBase is better in that because it saves me time and work.

I also noticed that you can use PHP and WhizBase together, I use server-side JavaScript with it, you can run server scripts on the server-side calling them by WhizBase, also I like in it that it is more secure, it have its big limitations but it is more secure because of that. The best thing I like that I can connect to MySQL or to Microsoft Access database without the need of giant classes or frameworks.

I think it is worth to be published about, maybe it is not powerful as PHP, ASP or ColdFusion yet, but 90% websites online do not need something powerful, they need just to connect to the DB and show data online

If you can help me to provide some tutorials on this Forum, and maybe contact W3Schools team to consider WhizBase it will be great.
Thank you for your reply again

Hi Ingolme,
I would not agree 100% with you, it has a lot more than just manipulating with databases, with WhizBase as I used it for now you can manipulate with files, create any textual files or edit them, you have all the scripting language elements like variables processing, arrays, string functions, loops, if statements and so on..
I have succeed to make simple websites, a calendar application, a guest book, a forum, sending emails, RSS feeds, online document manager (with uploader) and an upload estimator with a special function in WhizBase that gives how many bytes are uploaded until now.
They are adding new functions every day, so I think this scripting language will grow in power near to other server-side scripting languages very soon

Well, I'm really glad to see the name of our product mentioned on w3schools forum (even just as a suggestion for a tutorial). Please allow me to take part in this discussion. I think I can provide some useful answers, before you decide if our tool is worth testing (and/or learning).

Skemicin made good point with his comment about fact that developer has to pay for WhizBase opposed to free PHP and ASP(.NET) usage. We are aware of that and therefore we made our licensing policy flexible in a way. First - WhizBase is free for use on .org and .edu domains (both international and national .org.xx and .edu.xx). There is no need to register WhizBase in any way for use on these domains. WhizBase simply checks the domain on which it is hosted and if it is an org(.xx) or edu(.xx) it switches to registered mode.
Trial (unregistered) version is fully functional on http://localhost and http://127.0.0.1 and on all other domains it works same as registered version but with reminder screen that appears on the generated page and stays there for 10 seconds.
Then there are 3 types of licenses - single domain license, server license and developer license. For a single domain license we have a policy to accept up to 3 domain names pointing to the same web site, and we register the domain itself, not aliases (e.g. we make registration key for whizbase.com not for www.whizbase.com, so it works with all aliases - intranet.whizbase.com, www.whizbase.com, development.whizbase.com, etc).
Server license is valid for all sites hosted on a single computer, and developer license can be used on any server and any domain for web contents developed by the developer for whom the license is purchased (meaning that developer can create the keys himself and give it together with web site, but can not sell WhizBase registration keys separately).
WhizBase comes with free wizards for making the reports (WBSP file) and forms and it really enables anyone make more or less complex database-driven contents.
As about hosting providers offering the WhizBase, we are in process of making partnerships with few and we hope their number will increase. Since it is free for .org (and .edu) we think they will find the interest for hosting the WhizBase-powered sites.

And finally, about sites in our portfolio powered by PHP (there are two of them) – it will sound as an excuse, but I’ll say it anyway
For one of them (Glubbin), we did only graphic layout design. However, the other (Europronet) we developed using PHP. The reason for this was non technical (in a way that there is nothing in that site that could not be accomplished with WhizBase) but personal. The administrator of the site, an employee of our client show no interest in learning a single line of the WhizBase, and he was familiar with PHP so we had either to accept to develop the site using the PHP or to lose the client. So, we developed it in PHP.

I hope this helps.

Best regards,
Faik Djikic
DSD WhizBase Team

Thanks for commenting.

With regard to WhizBase vs. PHP, can you comment on the differences between WhizBase and PHP with no extensions? Can WhizBase essentially do everything that PHP with no extensions can do, or are there limitations? I realize that PHP extensions like GD or the PDF stuff would probably do things that WhizBase wouldn't, so I'm just asking about the "core" PHP libraries. Would you say that you could use WhizBase to implement most PHP applications? Does WhizBase only output to HTML, or can you control the output of it?

Well I'm not that good with PHP to be able to comment it’s features (for that it is much better to ask person that works both with PHP and WhizBase), but I’ll give the best answers I can.
WhizBase can return any text based output including HTML, XHTML, XML, plain text, RTF, RSS, JavaScript, VB Script, WML/WAP. It can add/delete/update/browse database records and it support all database types supported by Microsoft® Jet Engine 3.5 and 4.0 using DAO and ADO objects including Microsoft® Access versions 2.0 to 2003 (MDB files) and Microsoft® Access version 2007 (ACCDB files), dBASE™ versions III, IV and 5.0, Paradox™ versions 3.x, 4.x and 5.x, FoxPro® versions 2.0, 2.5, 2.6 and 3.0, ASCII files in tabular format, MySQL, MS SQL and all databases that support ODBC connections or can be connected using ADO connection string.
It can write output to a file instead of returning it to the client, it can read/write INI files, it can send mail (both personalized and mailing lists), it can upload files and show upload progress, it can read external URL and include it in report, it can run external server-side scripts in scripting languages supported by the server (usually VBScript and JavaScript, but if there is any other language available for Windows Scripting Host it can also be used).

It can not execute OS commands or EXE files by itself and it can not access the files above virtual host’s wwwroot directory by default. It can not make directories by itself (it can do it using VBScript or JavaScript).
Web server’s administrator can easily control if WhizBase can run external scripts I’ve already mentioned, use absolute path, write/delete files, use ADO connection strings, upload files and it can be set for every virtual host separately, by editing single (and very simple) text file. Web server’s administrator can easily control which virtual host can use WhizBase even if entire server is configured to support the WhizBase.

I hope this answered your question (at least partially). For any further info please do not hesitate to ask a specific question.

Best regards,
Faik Djikic
DSD WhizBase Team

Hi justsomeguy,
I see that this topic is going better than I expected, I made a simple comparison as I know, there may be some mistakes

OS Support:
PHP can be installed on Unix, Mac OS and Windows.
WBSP can be installed on Windows.

Working with variables:
PHP and WBSP can work with variables.

Working with arrays:
PHP have more functions working with arrays.
WBSP have all basic functions of slicing, sorting and manipulating with arrays.

Working with expression:
PHP can work with basic and regular expressions.
WBSP work with the basic expressions.

Basic Math:
PHP and WBSP have basic math support, you can do basic math operations built-in.

Control Structures:
PHP and WBSP have basic control structures like IF and Switch.

Loop Structures:
PHP supports while, for, Foreach and do while.
WBSP supports while and "sub reports".

Custom functions:
In PHP you can create your own custom functions.
In WBSP you can use sub reports as an alternative, you can not make your own custom functions yet.

OOP support:
PHP supports OOP.
WBSP does not support OOP.

Installation mode:
PHP and WBSP can work as CGI and as apache module.

Filesystem security:
PHP have a lot of filesystem security holes, but you can work with the filesystem easily.
WBSP have limited support for working with filesystem, it uses VBScript and JS to do some things, but if you limit something you do not have security holes.

DB security:
PHP have a lot of DB security holes, an experienced programmer can leave the application easy for hackers.
WBSP have a strong security and filtering automated, you connect to the DB with defined functions for that.

Error reporting:
PHP have a powerful error reporting system, but you can not make custom error reporting easily.
WBSP have a basic error reporting system, but you can make your own custom error reporting messages very easily.

Cookies:
WBSP have easier access to cookies than PHP.

Sessions:
PHP supports sessions and that is one of its power sides but it is also a security problem if the developer does not care.
WBSP does not support sessions, it have a limited session system with uploading files and other functions.

File upload:
PHP handles file uploading.
WBSP handles file uploading and multiple file uploading with less code, and it has built-in progress checker for how many bytes have been uploaded to be used with AJAX or IFRAME.

Server Administrator control:
PHP supports administration on the server with PHP.INI and some functions.
WBSP have better and wider control, you can control even which user can use which functions and structures.

Ease of DB connections:
PHP supports connection with the DB with multiple functions.
WBSP have easier code to connect to the DB it has a built-in functions to do the whole work for you.

DB pagination:
PHP does not support pagination, you must write the code your self .
WBSP have built in pagination of the DB result, and it is one system for all DBs.

Non programmers in mind:
PHP is difficult for learning if you are not actually a programmer, it have C like syntax and you need more knowledge to use it.
WBSP have taken non-programmers in mind, it is designed to be easy to learn for non programmers, you do not need to know a lot to make a useful program.

Access and Excel DB:
WBSP have better support and it is easier to connect with Access and Excel than PHP.

Syntax:
PHP have C like style.
WBSP is smiler to ColdFusion it is embedded directly to HTML and it is easier to code.

I hope this simple comparison is enough, WBSP is for making websites faster and easier, PHP is more powerful but not easy to learn and work with. PHP is a programming language for me, WBSP is a scripting language. I prefer to use PHP when I am working something complicated, and prefer to use WhizBase when I need simple applications and web pages. The most thing I like in PHP is the number of the functions, you have hundreds of them. The most thing I like in WBSP is how easy to connect and work with a DB and its built in pagination.

Thanks for the response, I disagree with your characterization of PHP on a few points but I appreciate the feedback.

Hi again,
I have made some tutorials my self for WhizBase, if any have any more else please provide a link here:
http://whizbase-scripting-language.blogspot.com/