Jump to content
  • Announcements

    • boen_robot

      Guidelines and Netiquette   03/28/2017

      Posting Problems:   Having problems posting your topic? Read through this: To join, you agree to our terms and conditions and fill out and submit a registration form. An activation email will be sent to your email adress, so you'll need to verify your account. After that the account has to be validated by one of the moderators. This will mean that it can take up to a day to be activated. A couple of things to remember to ensure approval: Don't use an email address in one of those $2 four character .com domains eg. xyds.com. These will be deleted and the domain added to the banned list. Don't use an email address that is within a domain with a bad reputation for spam. A Google search is run on every email address and email domain. Don't sign up with an email address that doesn't exist, doesn't work or requires the sender to answer a quiz before their email can get to you. Put your country and or state and city in the signup form. Blank forms will go to the botton of the "to do" list. And make sure that your email address and your country match, saying you're from Alabama and using a .ru email address is not going to get you activated. After a membership is activated the first few posts will be monitored. Posting spam or unapproved topics described in the agreement results in an immediate ban. The email provider and the IP addresses associated with the account will be banned and all posts will be deleted. These strict measures have been deemed necessary to hinder spam. Sorry for any inconvenience this causes, but it's not liable to change. If, after reading this, you still can't post and don't understand why, contact one of the Moderators listed here.   Topic Guidelines   Including the following information can expedite an accurate response from board members: Must be a Specific Problem or Question related to web design and development Include Code in Question (wrap with   for small blocks of code and for longer blocks   ) Include Code Author Include Extra Notes/Modifications/Attempts Include web link to page/file when possible Content Guidelines   You may not post, upload, link to, or email any Content that contains, promotes, gives instruction about, or provides prohibited Content. Prohibited Content includes any Content that breaks any local, state, county, national or international law. Prohibited Content also includes: No direct or indirect advertising or websites, forums, products, services No hijacking of posts (do not post your question in someone elses) Content that infringes upon any rights [ex. MP3s and ROMs] (including, but not limited to, copyrights and trademarks) Abusive, threatening, defamatory, racist, or obscene Viruses or any other harmful computer software False Information or libel Spam, chain letters, or Pyramid schemes Gambling or Illicit drugs Terrorism Hacking or cheating for internet/online games Warez, Roms, CD-Keys, Cracks, Passwords, or Serial Numbers Pornography, nudity, or sexual material of any kind Excessive profanity Invasive of privacy or impersonation of any person/entity Hacking materials or information Posting Tips   There are more BBcodes than there are buttons for on the reply menu. To get the full list, click "BB Code Help" underneath the clickable smilie face menu. Use   for small snippets of code Use   for lengthy snippets of code Use   if your snippet is HTML (optional) Use   if your snippet is SQL (optional) Rules of Conduct   Be nice. There's no need for calling someone stupid if they ask an 'easy' question. Keep your avatars and signatures absolutely child friendly. We have a younger audience on this forum. Keep your language appropriate for the same reason above. Do not PM moderators for help on the forum. Post on the topic, or create a new one.   Spam:   Recently, as you have all without doubt noticed, we have had lots of spam and advertisement on the forum. Therefore, we'd like to alert you as to what to do when you have found any of the aforementioned annoying messages: it. Immediately. Give a clear reason, please, if the advertising is not evident. DO NOT POST! Report, let the post stay as is, and we will get to it, meanwhile if you continue to post as normal in the other threads, it won't be on the top so long. Refrain from PMing the member. This won't help at all, as they are most likely spambots anyway. Thank you.       Images in signatures:   After thinking of users on dial-up, we have decided to enforce the following rules regarding signatures. Please pay heed to them. Respecting these rules is respecting the members on this forum with dial-up. Signature rules: No animated images AT ALL. No matter the amount of animation. Maximum image widthxheight: 300x150 Maximum image (file) size: 15kb Use calm colors. Do not use highly contrasting images in your signature, as this can get really annoying when seeing several posts from one member in the same thread. The same prohibited content goes for images as for posts. Lastly, use common sense. No lengthy signatures please. Save us some scrolling. Thank you.       Links in signatures:   Please understand that w3schools.com only exists because of voluntary work and is barely supported by the advertising littered throughout the tutorials and the forum. So, please, stop advertising other sites. DO not post links that drive traffic away from the w3schools domain - especially to a site that offers similar if not identical information. Please help support the site by keeping individuals on it. Thank you. Here are some guidelines as to what you can put in your signature: w3schools links --> allowed w3.org links --> allowed browser links --> allowed html editor links --> allowed personal sites --> allowed tutorial sites competing with w3schools --> NOT allowed sites completely irrelevant to webprogramming and this forum --> NOT allowed   Thanks for understanding, and for taking the time to read this. ~W3Schools Modstaff~
jimfog

css3 and compatibility

Recommended Posts

CSS3 offers great features but what worries me is the compatibility issue. Some users will not be able to see css3 effects etc... cause of their older browsers. So the question comes down to this: css3 in favor of great effects or non-css3 coding in favor of greater compatibility? What do you prefer?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Depends... some CSS3 effects can easily be fallbacked, like rounded corners for example - if the user has an older browser, he simply would see corners as sharp ones.As for those which can't be fallbacked... I put my bar on IE8, since it's the best you can expect from XP.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Depends on your target audience and the purpose of your site. Although, I think by now most browsers are modern enough that they support a good chunk of CSS3. The only real exception is IE. Personally, I prefer to use modern coding practices and techniques with graceful degradation for older browsers. Most CSS3 properties degrade well. This site mentions a JavaScript library which detects browser support, and if the browser does not support CSS3, it uses jQuery.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Depends... some CSS3 effects can easily be fallbacked, like rounded corners for example - if the user has an older browser, he simply would see corners as sharp ones.
Yes but this might ruin the design of the site-so i would use "graceful degradation" so that round corners appear on both cases.
As for those which can't be fallbacked... I put my bar on IE8, since it's the best you can expect from XP.
What do you mean "put my bar in IE8"? I am not following you here
Depends on your target audience and the purpose of your site. Although, I think by now most browsers are modern enough that they support a good chunk of CSS3. The only real exception is IE. Personally, I prefer to use modern coding practices and techniques with graceful degradation for older browsers. Most CSS3 properties degrade well. This site mentions a JavaScript library which detects browser support, and if the browser does not support CSS3, it uses jQuery.
You say "they degrade well". Does that means what boen...robot means, for example,"see corners as sharp", or using css3 for modern browsers AND code also for older browsers which have though THE SAME OUTCOME EFFECT as css3. The end result being round corners(taking as reference this example)for BOTH cases.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

For round corners, box shadow, text shadow in IE7 - 8 I use ie-css3.htc (google), but you can't apply this to individual round corners, only to all four. with the other css3 styling for IE7-8 you can't do anything much to achieve the same effect, unless in some cases use css2 styling in such a way to get more or less the same result and using conditional comments to apply these for IE7-8. 'best viewed in all browsers other than IE, but! if you must! gees...use IE9' is a message you could use :)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
What do you mean "put my bar in IE8"? I am not following you here
I mean that if something is not working in IE8, I say to myself "fine, I'll fix it, so that it looks well even in IE8", but if it doesn't work in IE7 or IE6, I go "screw this! I'll just put a message telling people to upgrade or use another browser!".But like I said, some features fall back easily. I'd use border-radius even though IE8 and below don't support it, because this is not a vital visual style (unlike, say, margins, "display:table;", etc.).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
You say "they degrade well". Does that means what boen...robot means, for example,"see corners as sharp", or using css3 for modern browsers AND code also for older browsers which have though THE SAME OUTCOME EFFECT as css3.
I was referring to the same sort of degradation that boen mentioned. As in, users with older browsers will not have round corners or they will not see transitions.To have the same outcome as CSS3 requires a lot of extra code in many cases. Round corners is a good example. You would need to use images and divs, one for each side and each corner (a total of 8).The link I posted in my previous reply mentions a JavaScript library that allows you to use CSS3 transitions (and possibly some other new properties) for supporting browsers and jQuery for non-supporting browsers.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Ok i got your point-what worries me though, is that if you have a bunch of css3 features and all these degrade(in case the browser does not support ) then the visual outcome will be far from what i want, so it seems to me, that resorting to js(jQuery) is the way to go if you want to close the holes .

Edited by jimfog

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

JS can be turned off, although not typically. However, going the JS route often involved DOM manipulation, which can be taxing on the browser in it's own right depending on the circumastances. If it's vital the design, then images are the surefire way to go, although they require more load times initially. (sprites can be very helpful here). If it's supported well in all the main browsers you care about, then try and use CSS first. There are also proprietary styles that you can use for individual browser vendors. If you are comfortable with the JS route, then use that. Typically a developer would like to use a technique that is forwards compatible as much as it backwards compatible and that doesn't require a ton of extraneous code for something that will soon be standard/spec, given what we know about the fairly generous CSS3 support there is out there for the time being. Using a bunch of JS might seem superflous, because really, eventually it will just be able to be done with CSS fairly soon.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

And something else. You told me for example what is the case with rounded corners(fallbacks in square ones) But what about gradients. I want to aply css3 gradient. Do these degrade also gracefully? Basically, i must have told this from the beginning-sorry for that.

Edited by jimfog

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

what about just trying it in a browser that supports, or one that doesn't? you could always google...https://www.google.com/#hl=en&sclient=psy-ab&q=css3+graceful+degradation&oq=css3+grace&aq=0&aqi=g1g-v2g-b1&aql=&gs_sm=3&gs_upl=89l2749l0l3980l10l10l0l0l0l0l114l793l8.2l10l0&gs_l=hp.3.0.0j0i15l2j0i8.89l2749l0l3980l10l10l0l0l0l0l114l793l8j2l10l0.llsin&pbx=1&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.r_cp.r_qf.,cf.osb&fp=f20844cc91153529&biw=1440&bih=779 and find something like this (first link)http://jonraasch.com/blog/graceful-degradation-with-css3

Fortunately, most CSS3 properties degrade fairly nicely on their own. Rounded corners become square, gradients become flat colors, and transitions become hard changes.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

In general, any unsupported CSS property is ignored. You can specify a property multiple times, and when you do that, the last supported one will be in effect.So, in the case of gradients, you can simply specify a solid color to be used as a fallback, e.g.

.fancy {background-color: #F07575; /*Fallback for browsers not supporting gradients or SVG backgrounds*/background-image: url("bg.svg"); /*Fallback for browsers not supproting gradients, but supporting SVG backgrounds. The image is expected to completely overlap the color.*/background-image: linear-gradient(to bottom, hsl(0, 80%, 70%), #BADA55);}

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
In general, any unsupported CSS property is ignored. You can specify a property multiple times, and when you do that, the last supported one will be in effect. So, in the case of gradients, you can simply specify a solid color to be used as a fallback, e.g.
.fancy {background-color: #F07575; /*Fallback for browsers not supporting gradients or SVG backgrounds*/background-image: url("bg.svg"); /*Fallback for browsers not supproting gradients, but supporting SVG backgrounds. The image is expected to completely overlap the color.*/background-image: linear-gradient(to bottom, hsl(0, 80%, 70%), #BADA55);}

The above code is the way to go, but what i do not understand is this SVG format What do you mean by saying "...SVG backgrounds", how SCG relates to PNG or JPEG. I just need some clarification with the above.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

SVG is another image format. Unlike PNG and JPEG, it's a vector format. Although you'd typically use image editors to edit it, SVG uses an XML syntax, so you can use a text editor or an XML API do edit it. There's a tutorial on W3Schools about its syntax.By virtue of being a vector format, SVG images can be stretched without any quality loss. More importantly to the example above, SVG supports gradients.Although SVG has been supported in browsers since Firefox 2, Opera 9 and Safari... 3 I believe... it's only in recent versions (Opera 9.5, Firefox 3.6, IE9, Safari... I think 4) that browsers support SVG images to be used as a value of background-image. Previously, they only supported SVG with <object>, or at best, with <img>.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Well. i really did not know these facts you mention about SVG. As i understand it, PNG and JPEG(as opposed to SVG) degrade as they stretch-as they are bitmaps. In fact ,i always wonder what is the image format which has to do with vectors, since all the formats I have deal so far are bitmaps.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

×