frame or table

[Atom-G]

Hey, I checked the website w3schools and I find the design nice so I decided to check out the code and I saw that there is "like" 4 main table for menu, top logo, main text and menu at right. Ok I understand the code, but how this kind of programming could be good? I think I missed something and thats why:if you modify one option in your left menu, then you need to change EACH internet page with taht new button/internet link. If you use frame, then you only need to change ONE internet page to adjust the menu.Is there something I missed or this is a good way to do?thx for help!

[Eric]

Well, w3schools is written in ASP so it's possible that they put a variable in the menu section of the table, so if it needs to be updated it will update on all pages.That's what I do on my site with PHP, although my layout is pure CSS (and looks good on all major browsers )If it was a choice between tables or frames, I'd go with tables. Older browsers don't support frames. And as hard as it is to believe, some people do use old outdated browsers :)Plus, search engines usually can't read frames, so you won't get a very good rating from popular search engines like Yahoo! and Google.

[Atom-G]

Ok, so you recommend me to learn PHP (wich is ok with me) and use frame?

[boen_robot]

He means that using server side scripting eliminates the need of frames. So no- You don't need to put your stuff in frames. Learning a server side scripting language(PHP, ASP(.NET), ColdFusion, JSP, etc.) is more than enough for placing document in one another.By the way, try to avoid using tables as well. They are recommended only for tabular data, not for layout purposes. For layout you should try to use divs in combination with CSS for the presentation purposes. Don't look at W3Schools for example in this thing. They know they are not giving a good example of a clean layout, but they are focusing more on writing the tutorials, rather then the design of the site(I one saw kaijim's post regarding this topic).

[Atom-G]

thank you, and my last post was "and use tables?" and not frames. Anyway, thx a lot for the help .

[DjDTM]

Learn php yes, but to get a good "frame" affect use CSS overflow. It works like a frame but its not. Make sure though you use php. I have my site set up so that the link loads up in the include which is set up with the CSS over flow thingy. Man I'm horrible at explaining things. BUT IT WORKSPHP + CSS OVERFLOW = Imitation frame that works. There.

[playmenow]

Ok, so you recommend me to learn PHP (wich is ok with me) and use frame?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Nope, no frame. Take a look how I used PHP in my site:

// Get the header and the navigation menu<?php require("design.html"); ?><h1>Welcome to PlayMeNow!</h1><p>Welcome to PlayMeNow website! Thank you for this visit. We hope that you will enjoy this website. You are free to take anything you like from this site, but do not sell them. This site hasn't any copyright, so use anything you like. Oh, this question is asked often: Why no copyright?</p><p><script type="text/javascript" src="*" /><noscript>BidVertiser ads</noscript></p><p>Here's the answer: Because we don't want to throw money away for a certificate, it won't stop people from taking anything from this site. It doesn't matter how cheap is the certificate, we won't pay for it. Better we pay for a SSL certificate  Is better to have all the site encrypted with 40-bit SSL. But why 40-bit? This site hasn't valuable information, so a 40-bit one is good for this site to be pretty secure  Below you can find the FAQ (Frequently Asked Questions).<br />We have a forum: <a href="/forum">PlayMeNow forum</a>.</p><p class="bold">How I can contact you?</p><p>See in the navigation menu.</p><p class="bold">I want to link to you. What will I receive?</p><p>Nothing. Really nothing. Sorry, but if you link to us, it is like you are making a donation.</p><p class="bold">How I can advertise on your site?</p><p>Look here first:<br /><a href="*">Advertise Rules</a><br /><a href="*">Advertise on PlayMeNow.Tk</a><br /><br /><a href="*"><img src="images/roxr_banner.jpg" class="banner" /></a></p></td></tr></table></td></tr></table></body></html>

and design.html (menu & header):

<!DOCTYPE html PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD XHTML 1.1//EN" "http://www.w3.org/TR/xhtml11/DTD/xhtml11.dtd"><html xmlns="http://www.w3.org/1999/xhtml" xml:lang="en"><head><title>PlayMeNow website</title><!-- Some tags that are really needed --><link rel="stylesheet" type="text/css" href="style.css" /><link rel="shortcut icon" type="image/x-icon" href="favicon.ico" /><link rel="author" title="Chirea Mircea Mark Aurel" href="mailto:chireamircea@yahoo.com" /><meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="application/xhtml+xml; charset=ISO-8859-1" /><meta name="description" content="Welcome to PlayMeNow! If you hate Winamp, then use PlayMeNow. So, hope youll enjoy this site." /><meta name="keywords" content="playmenow, media player, beat winamp, download, buy, donate" /></head><body><table class="logos" summary="Here is the header with the Google ads"><tr class="valign"><td><a href="http://www.roxr.com/"><img src="images/logo.jpg" alt="logo1" /></a></td><td class="topgb"><!-- The buttons --><p><a href="http://validator.w3.org/check?uri=referer"><img src="http://www.w3.org/Icons/valid-xhtml11.png" class="button" alt="Valid XHTML 1.1!" /></a><a href="http://jigsaw.w3.org/css-validator/check/referer"><img src="http://jigsaw.w3.org/css-validator/images/vcss.png" class="button" alt="Valid CSS!" /></a><a href="https://www.moneybookers.com/app/?rid=*"><img src="http://www.moneybookers.com/images/banners/88_en_interpayments.gif" class="button" alt="MoneyBookers - International Payments" /></a><a href="https://www.e-gold.com/newacct/newaccount.asp?cid=*"><img src="http://www.e-gold.com/gif/paywith.gif" class="button" alt="E-Gold - International Payments" /></a><a href="http://www.roxr.com/"><img src="images/roxr_button.jpg" class="button" alt="ROXR - Host The Best!" /></a><!-- YEAH! --><a href="http://www.w3schools.com"><img src="images/w3schools.gif" class="button" alt="Visit W3Schools" /></a></p></td></tr></table><div class="topbar" /><br /><br /><table class="menu" summary="You can see here the navigation menu, links and a banner"><tr class="valign"><td class="menu1"><br /><!-- (START) The whole navigation menu -->  »<a href="index.php">Home Page</a><br /><img src="images/menubar.jpg" class="menuimg" alt="" /><br />  »<a href="download.php">Download PlayMeNow</a><br /><img src="images/menubar.jpg" class="menuimg" alt="" /><br />  »<a href="services.php">PlayMeNow's services</a><br /><img src="images/menubar.jpg" class="menuimg" alt="" /><br />  »<a href="about.php">About PlayMeNow</a><br /><img src="images/menubar.jpg" class="menuimg" alt="" /><br />  »<a href="support.php">Get Support</a><br /><img src="images/menubar.jpg" class="menuimg" alt="" /><br />  <a href="http://www.*.be">Ancient Wars</a><br /><img src="images/menubar.jpg" class="menuimg" alt="" /><br />  <a href="http://www.*.roxr.com">ExplodingBunnies</a><br /><img src="images/menubar.jpg" class="menuimg" alt="" /><br />  <a href="http://www.*.*.info">Pk-Point</a><br /><img src="images/menubar.jpg" class="menuimg" alt="" /><br />  <a href="http://www.*.com">Pro-Mania</a><br /><img src="images/menubar.jpg" class="menuimg" alt="" /><br /><a href="http://www.*.com/*/*.php/?aff=playmenow"><img src="images/tt_vbanner.gif" alt="Template Tunning" /></a><!-- (END) The whole navigation menu --></td><td><table class="text" summary="You can find here the content of this page"><tr class="valign"><td><!-- The content of this web page -->

I removed some links....i don't advertise...feel free to use my source;)So, using

<?php require("file.html"); ?>

is very easy. No frames...I use tables...I had a boring site with <div>s, i tried to convert this one to <div>, but I don't have enough time to correct some errors...however, i'm waiting for XHTMl 2.0 & make something perfect & tell everyone how to be at the top with pure CSS