gee... thanks so basically html/xhtml is the same as always your saying and adding the xslt elements are like adding php in a sense... that was a great understanding you gave me, i wish the xslt school lesson was a lil better for me to understand from a design P.O.V. however i am studying and attempting to learn the new format. i will follow the insructions you gave and request the lists from my developer and see what i can come up with, really i hear some say its sooo simple however i have yet to see its simplicity, but one thing i am not is a quitter. i havent been at this long but i have been at this hard so thanks, im sure ill be back... also might you be able to send me a page all html with the xslt elemnt running in an integral format?i kind of learn backwards and it would be a great helpagain boen_robot! thanks