Jump to content
Sign in to follow this  
eBBee

Browsing or NotJustBrowsing

Recommended Posts

Did you design VSS without any knowledge of RSS? Out of anyone, you should be the one to compare RSS with VSS and explain why VSS is better then RSS, what problems it addresses that RSS does not, and why people should spend their time and money implementing and supporting it. It sounds like you're creating a solution first, and then looking for the problem.
Yes, I did design VSS without the knowledge of RSS. In fact VSS is a by-product of a desired/requested functionality, i.e., a desire to be able to take parts from different webpages and making customized page for browsing in its own.I don't know how you will fulfill this request using RSS?In my opinion, advantage of VSS over RSS is that a user is incharge of what he wants and how he wants. It is easy for information syndicator and involves no overheads. I gave a few examples of this phenomenon in my software, one of which is a piece from "The Daily Mail" newspaper's showbiz section and it is worth looking.Your arguments will be hollow if you don't know what NotJustbrowsing is providing you and how It is dealing with with "tremendous amount of information" and you will keep linking RSS with "tremendous amount of information". The way you re-reference (bookmarking in layman's term) this increased amount of information is not dealt with by any browser.
Another example. Opera has had support for years now for a tabbed browser interface. I can open up 20 tabs to websites all related to a specific topic.
Same problem of "not knowing"/"knowing only one side" is here as well. Linear/Multiple (side-by-side) view and Tabs are 180 degreess apart from each other. You may sing a song for Tabs but you can not make a Tabbed interface behave in a side-by-side (linear/multiple) fashion or vice versa.You can not compare or discuss the difference between IE7's web page's thumbnail approach with the Tailored Page until you know both.Only after knowing my browser you will be able to think, how far behind or how far apart other browsers are from NotJustBrowsing.I very much appreciate your discussion and value your effort and I am very pleased with your arguments and thankful to you. By no means, I am here to win in any argument. It will be easy for me to answer any of your questions regarding functionalities and their purpose in my browser. By now, you may have noticed that my efforts are in a different direction so the result is different too.
So you're saying that "bookmark" is vague.
Yes, using bookmark without any concept of book is vague.
What are you putting on the shelf? Is it links to documents or pages? Is it shortcuts to programs? Is it pictures? At my house I put pictures on shelves. I also put food on them. Is it dry food and canned goods?
At the moment you can place 14 different categories of items in the "shelf" of NotJustBrowsing, including "Photo Album", "Audio" and of course "books". You may have mixed contents in that case you may choose to place those items under "Collection". You may have noticed a "Recycle Bin", a photo album named "Computer Table" containing pictures of a computer table in the shelf of NotJustBrowsing.Now tell me how links to differenet types of media (html, pictures, audio) are stored in anyother browser? Files & Folders information management, in short.This is essential part of the information ("tremendous amount") management structure that I am proud of producing and you are not willing to know anything about it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Yes, I did design VSS without the knowledge of RSS. In fact VSS is a by-product of a desired/requested functionality, i.e., a desire to be able to take parts from different webpages and making customized page for browsing in its own.I don't know how you will fulfill this request using RSS?
It's called a news aggregator or feed reader!
Same problem of "not knowing"/"knowing only one side" is here as well. Linear/Multiple (side-by-side) view and Tabs are 180 degreess apart from each other. You may sing a song for Tabs but you can not make a Tabbed interface behave in a side-by-side (linear/multiple) fashion or vice versa.
I don't want to divide my screen into 200 pixel wide panels to view multiple pages in one window. that is why tabs are so great. You can easily click and view multple pages, all at full size.
Yes, using bookmark without any concept of book is vague.
Where have you been for the last 4000 years? You don't know what a book is? You think people don't know what books are? If they are capable of installing your browser (which, btw, is more complicaqted than any other browser because you require them to also install an extra framework) I am sure they have at least read 1 book in there life. Has your local school system banned books or something?
I don't know about anyone else, but I'm having a blast.
I am enjoying every minute :)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I don't want to divide my screen into 200 pixel wide panels to view multiple pages in one window. that is why tabs are so great. You can easily click and view multple pages, all at full size.
Are you sure you don't want to see them (http://www.notjustbrowsing.com/browsing_layout.jpg) togather? How will you compare them? Perhaps you don't believe in "group of objects".

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Are you sure you don't want to see them (http://www.notjustbrowsing.com/browsing_layout.jpg) togather? How will you compare them? Perhaps you don't believe in "group of objects".
Perhaps having vertical scrollbars and having to scroll them to read content pisses me off. Perhaps you do not believe in "usability"?Your layout picture looks nice but how did you navigate to those images with such small windows? That would drive me crazy!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

personally the content of a site is what I am interested in not combining graphics from multiple sites to make a new design.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Perhaps having vertical scrollbars and having to scroll them to read content pisses me off. Perhaps you do not believe in "usability"?Your layout picture looks nice but how did you navigate to those images with such small windows? That would drive me crazy!
1. Vertical scrollbars may not be there, it is an old picture. 2. There are no contents other than those pictures, so the size of browsers, how man of them and in what layout is already defined. That is called "Multiple Browsing" that you are scared to know about. This method (Multiple Browsing) provides better usability, if you would consider to know it.3. If you download NotJustBrowsing and try to view "Computer Table" pictures, you will see them better using the same technique.Here is some detail, how it is done (http://www.notjustbrowsing.com/userguide/browsingspace.htm).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

that is great and all but you still haven't told me how to get those pictures like your screen shot. And I am not going to download and install your browser just to find out.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
personally the content of a site is what I am interested in not combining graphics from multiple sites to make a new design.
Combining graphics is for demonstration purpose. Contents on one page of one site on its own have very little value now a days.We always need more than one site or page for one particular purpose. For example, when you refer to a few web page links you list them at the most. But "Multiple Browsing" concept is that you can accurately arrange web pages in an order for a user to read and to resolve his/her problem in a structured fashion.It is like if you hand in 5 books to a student and say that reading relevant portions of those books will solve your problem. Instead, it will be better for student to have all the relevant sections book marked and books be given to him/her in right order. It will save his time and effort but he might not learn anything other than he wanted to in this situation.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
that is great and all but you still haven't told me how to get those pictures like your screen shot. And I am not going to download and install your browser just to find out.
I am here for your service, don't hessitate to ask.I Googled for "flowers" for images. I used "See Through" on results to view only images belonged to different domains. Dragged image locations under one "Heading" in "Study Place". I looked at the "Properties" of that "Heading" (as seen in the last picture on this page http://www.notjustbrowsing.com/userguide/browsingspace.htm) under which I placed all those url's of these pictures and set the "layout"(as shown in last picture).Once it is done, it is ready to be viewed and shared in the same format."See Throug": is a facility to browse all those links in a web page according to your criteria.(http://www.notjustbrowsing.com/userguide/see_through.htm)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I am here for your service, don't hessitate to ask.I Googled for "flowers" for images. I used "See Through" on results to view only images belonged to different domains. Dragged image locations under one "Heading" in "Study Place". I looked at the "Properties" of that "Heading" (as seen in the last picture on this page http://www.notjustbrowsing.com/userguide/browsingspace.htm) under which I placed all those url's of these pictures and set the "layout"(as shown in last picture).Once it is done, it is ready to be viewed and shared in the same format."See Throug": is a facility to browse all those links in a web page according to your criteria.(http://www.notjustbrowsing.com/userguide/see_through.htm)
Okay that doesn't sound as bad, but why is the user forced to show at least 10 locations. Won't this make displaying HTML content very messy?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Okay that doesn't sound as bad, but why is the user forced to show at least 10 locations. Won't this make displaying HTML content very messy?
If you are talking about "See Through" maximum locations then it is configurable from 10 to 50.If there will be less than 10 links in a page fulfilling desired criteria then only those links will be automatically browsed in new browsers appearing linearly.If you are talking about "Multiple Browsing" then it is from 1 to 10 links. So you may have 1 to 10 pages (links) in one "multiple browse (Go)" request. When you will be requesting in multiples, you will be able to move forward and backward in multiples. If you see 5 links, 7 links and 3 links togather then by pressing (multiple back) will show you 7 links togather multiple back button pressing again will show you 5 links togather.It is like looking at chapter by chapter at a time instead of one page of a chapter at a time.http://www.notjustbrowsing.com/userguide/mcbar.htmhttp://www.notjustbrowsing.com/userguide/collections.htmhttp://www.notjustbrowsing.com/userguide/ht_populate.htmhttp://www.notjustbrowsing.com/userguide/bookmark.htm

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Same problem of "not knowing"/"knowing only one side" is here as well. Linear/Multiple (side-by-side) view and Tabs are 180 degreess apart from each other. You may sing a song for Tabs but you can not make a Tabbed interface behave in a side-by-side (linear/multiple) fashion or vice versa.
That totally misses the point. I'm not talking about the fact that Opera has tabs. I'm talking about the fact that it saves your browsing session and you can re-start exactly where you left off. I can even start writing an email, completely shut down the browser and the computer, restart and bring the browser back up, and whatever I had typed in the email is still there. That's what I'm talking about, saving and restoring sessions. I'm not talking about tabs. Tabs were great when they were introduced in Opera 5, but they're old news now.
Your arguments will be hollow if you don't know what NotJustbrowsing is providing you
Same problem of "not knowing"/"knowing only one side" is here as well.
You can not compare or discuss the difference between IE7's web page's thumbnail approach with the Tailored Page until you know both.Only after knowing my browser you will be able to think, how far behind or how far apart other browsers are from NotJustBrowsing.
This is essential part of the information ("tremendous amount") management structure that I am proud of producing and you are not willing to know anything about it.
OK, seriously. Why are you assuming that I haven't already looked at your browser?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

This is such a nice topic, I mean I have learnt so much just by reading the disscussion between NotJustBrowing and JustSomeGuy.It is soo cool that you people know so much about standards history of browsers and the standards that existed then. I really like this topic, a very nice learning place for me! :)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

That just comes from experience. I was developing for the web in the dark days of Netscape 4, so I remember what it was like then. In 5 or 10 years you'll have the same level of experience.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I dont think so, I am creating WebApps for another 2 years and then I wont do it again I think, cause there are no universites in India that give education in the field of WebDesing or Development and I cant afford to go abroad.I will most probably go in to Design and then do animation, digital graphics or similar sutff.Why do you call it the dark days??

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
That totally misses the point. I'm not talking about the fact that Opera has tabs. I'm talking about the fact that it saves your browsing session and you can re-start exactly where you left off. I can even start writing an email, completely shut down the browser and the computer, restart and bring the browser back up, and whatever I had typed in the email is still there. That's what I'm talking about, saving and restoring sessions. I'm not talking about tabs. Tabs were great when they were introduced in Opera 5, but they're old news now.OK, seriously. Why are you assuming that I haven't already looked at your browser?
Real question is why there is no such thing as "session" (hence session saving)?Answer is that since there is a unique system in place (left side of the browser) to keep all the relevant links, no matter how many and the "View/History" can be brought into play for such odd situations. You only have to do one thing and that is "File/Save" at the end of your session.I may be wrong in my assumption and you may have looked at my browser. I am waiting for more questions from you then. I will review all discussion to find out why I assumed that you didn't looked at my browser or you may have looked at my browser but didn't go deep in reasoning for each functionality.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Why do you call it the dark days??
Around 1998-99 was the time of really heated competition between IE and Netscape. So both of them were introducing their own proprietary things, IE had ActiveX and several other things, Netscape had various tags that IE didn't recognize, and both of them had different Javascript models. Netscape 4 also had a ton of bugs. Even today you can still see Javascript code that runs onresize, that is a result from a Netscape 4 resize bug. So trying to develop a good-looking cross-browser site was really a pain in the ######. Even simple Javascripts to do simple interactions needed to check which browser it was. All of the Javascript browser detection code you still see today is the result of those times when the different browsers supported different things in Javascript. So that's why everyone started just saying "view this site in IE" or whatever, because it wasn't worth it for a developer to spend time on figuring out the quirks of both browsers. Thankfully today the Javascript model is pretty standardized, and with the W3C pushing the specifications like they have, browser vendors (ok, Microsoft) are finally listening to all the screams from the web devs and paying attention to the standards.But don't take my word for it, go install IE 4.01 and Navigator 4.75 and see for yourself:http://browsers.evolt.org/Also, just so you know, I have no formal education in web design or web development. My education is general computer science. We worked with 12 or 13 languages during the course, and none of them were web languages. But if you know how to program, you know how to program, it doesn't matter which language it is. That's what online references like php.net are for, to look up the syntax and the specifics.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I don't know about anyone else, but I'm having a blast.
Me too. Haven't seen a topic going so amuzing in a while. I'm almost afraid of jumping in the pit with you too :) .OK... one thing. Let's suppose just for a sec (it will take A LOT of imagination for it...) that NotJustBrowsing is truly the kind of browser we'll see in the future. Now, because it's so different, don't you think it should be presented to users in a more familiar fashion, and then evolve steadly, solving different current issues as it goes?FYI, the first web browser, WorldWideWeb, supported multimedia too. Pure text browsers practically appeared with the rise of JavaScript as developers (browser vendors, not web developers) realised the possible security issues JavaScript may have, as well as when concepts like "accessability" were in their infancy.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
OK... one thing. Let's suppose just for a sec (it will take A LOT of imagination for it...) that NotJustBrowsing is truly the kind of browser we'll see in the future. Now, because it's so different, don't you think it should be presented to users in a more familiar fashion, and then evolve steadly, solving different current issues as it goes?
I don't know.. sometimes it's easier for user adoption to have a shallow learning curve. But, then again, if the change is that dramatic, a clean break might be better. People (kids) who learn the new way first are going to have no problems with it. If I was developing something radically different, I would probably just go all out. It's kind of like Opera and IE, when I first started using Opera I had trouble with it because it was very dissimilar to IE. But now that I'm all about Opera, I look at IE and think it's so simplistic and lacking.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yeah..I think I saw it on some TV program when Bill Gates release IE to give competetion to Netscape which was the big browser then.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Just out of curiosity, have you had any problems or heard any negative reports distributing software that requires the .NET framework? I've been wondering about that.
Problem with installation is rectified now (I hope). Also a variation of it (without Zero Point) can now be installed on Windows98 as well.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

You may not be able to RSS "YouTube" contents but you can see VSS (Very Simple Syndication) in action with YouTube contents using NotJustBrowsing. Anybody using NotJustBrowsing, you can view VSS syndicated contents from YouTube.com on this page http://www.notjustbrowsing.org/poshaak_mah...op10/PopOne.htmUse Ctrl+left mouse click to view linked clip in new browser pane.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I had a question for you, is NotJustBrowsing Open Source??Also I would like to know that how many people have downloaded it?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I had a question for you, is NotJustBrowsing Open Source??Also I would like to know that how many people have downloaded it?
No, it is not Open Source. I haven't yet implemented its design, I may say that idea has not yet been developed in its entirety.I think well designed and developed products (to be reproduced) are suitable for Open Source.Innovation is not a collective thing.New version of my browser is not yet fully advertised and I can tell you that I am worried about paying for the extra traffic over my limit that this version is generating. I don't want to exaggerate the situation but I think people are awaking up to new reality.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...
Sign in to follow this  

×
×
  • Create New...