Grammer error in tutorial pages.

[Vertuas]

Hello,I would like to point out an enlish language grammer error in multiple places on th epages of the HTML tutorial.Nouns beginning with a vowel shoud have the word "an" before them, eg :An appleAn orangeAn idiotAn eggAn uncleBill ate an appleNouns beginning with a consonent have the word "a" infront of them, eg:A fishA pageA documentA hourA houseBill lived in a houseSo it follows that because HTML and the phrase "Hyper Text Markup Language" both start with a consonent, they should be proceded with "a" not "an", eg:A HTML page **NOT** an HTML pageA HTML tag **NOT** an HTML tagthis is a HTML page **NOT** this is an HTML pageEverytime "HTML" appears in the tutorial, it has "an" before it.Does any agree that this need to be corrected??ThanksVert

[jeffman]

In my offline life, I am a college English professor and novelist. I can speak to this question. One thing to remember is that there is no Academy of English Standards, so our rules are more flexible than those of many other languages, being determined largely by consensus of usage rather than authoritative declaration.As to your question: when a group of letters designating a thing or organization (an acronym) is normally read AS letters, then it is the sound of the first letter that determines the article. In this case, the letter "H" is pronounced "aitch," so "an" is the correct article.But even if the acronym were intended to be read as the words for which the letters stand, the "H" in "hypertext" presents a challenge. When the "H" is silent, as in the word "honor," "an" is the correct article. When the "H" is sounded, as in "hyper-," most contemporary American authors would preface it with "a" rather than "an." But this is a recent trend. For hundreds of years, all writers of English prefaced all "H" words with "an." Many conservative British authors continue to do so.It is worth noting that many ancient and modern languages have no letter equivalent of "H." Instead, they place a diacritical mark near the affected vowel to designate what linguists call "rough breathing." Indeed, this is the case in ancient Greek, from which the prefix "hyper" (ὑπέρ) is borrowed.So the argument for using "an" can be made from several perspectives.The argument for spelling "grammar" with an "e" is more difficult to make.

[aspnetguy]

personally I think the an sounds better and more natural

[Jonas]

enlish . . . grammer . . . th epages . . .. . . shoud . . . consonent . . . infront . . .. . . a hour . . .. . . consonent . . . proceded (not spelling error, but rather wrong word, should be preceded) . . .Does any agree that this need to be corrected??ThanksVert

Yeah, definetely agree.

[boen_robot]

I asked my English teacher about this a while ago (6 moths ago or so) and she said that all acronyms, regardless of what they stand for and how they are spelled are prefixed with "An" instead of "a".Do keep in mind that we studied British English though. Still, I believe this is better as its easier on both the author and for the reader. Imagine having to pronounce "A ex-em-el document" or "A aitch-tea-em-el document" or something similar. Doesn't sound well to me.If you see W3Schools using "An" on places other than acronyms where they shouldn't, please say so. The rules you mention are still valid for non-acronyms in all English variations.

[jeffman]

she said that all acronyms, regardless of what they stand for and how they are spelled are prefixed with "An" instead of "a".

I can't believe this thread is still alive. BUT -- Your teacher has the right idea, boen, but only when the first letter of the acronym would be "spelled" with a vowel as the first "letter." If your acronym begins with any of the following, it needs to be prefixed with "a": B C D G J K P Q T U V W Y Z. (Edited re: post #7)When two distinct vowel sounds, or two distinct consonant sounds, are pronounced in sequence, a slight pause often comes between them (there are exceptions). This is slightly unnatural to most English speakers, and if you look at the history of many words, you'll see that the spelling has changed to eliminate the pause. It feels more natural for English speakers to pronounce a consonant sound after a vowel sound, and a vowel sound after a consonant sound. The "N" in "an" exists specifically to fill the pause between vowel sounds.All this happens unconsciously, but it's what you mean when you write that something does or doesn't "sound well to me."

[Jonas]

I can't believe this thread is still alive. BUT -- Your teacher has the right idea, boen, but only when the first letter of the acronym would be "spelled" with a vowel as the first "letter." If your acronym begins with any of the following, it needs to be prefixed with "a": B C D G J K P Q T V W Y Z.When two distinct vowel sounds, or two distinct consonant sounds, are pronounced in sequence, a slight pause often comes between them (there are exceptions). This is slightly unnatural to most English speakers, and if you look at the history of many words, you'll see that the spelling has changed to eliminate the pause. It feels more natural for English speakers to pronounce a consonant sound after a vowel sound, and a vowel sound after a consonant sound. The "N" in "an" exists specifically to fill the pause between vowel sounds.All this happens unconsciously, but it's what you mean when you write that something does or doesn't "sound well to me."

B C D G J K P Q T V W Y ZDon't forgot U, a vowel pronounced [ju:]"It's a UN resolution."Of course, some even replace a pronoun with that particular letter. Awful.Anyway, C U l8er.

[jeffman]

Don't forgot U, a vowel pronounced [ju:]

Serves me right for acting like a know-it all.

[Jonas]

Serves me right for acting like a know-it all.

Yes indeed, Mr "Professor".j/k :)Phonetics is underrated in English teaching though. At least in Norway. I've been learning English since third grade, and I swear I never heard of the thing until I decided to study English at university level, which I'm still doing in my third year. 10 years of looking up words in the dictionary, and never bothering to figure out what the pronunciation writing was.

[jeffman]

The parts of my little "lessons" that sound formal originate in the linguistics class I took in grad school. It was an option, not required. I learned a lot from it, though. My History of English class was also eye-opening.(Here's an interesting example that relates to this thread. In English we have a thing called a "nickname." These closely equate to what other languages call a "diminutive." The word "nickname" evolved from the word "ekename," with can loosely be translated as "also-name." It's easy to imagine the vowel change. But where did the "N" come from? Try pronouncing "An ekename" quickly. Now imagine that you had to spell the words, but you'd never seen them printed. You might think they were "A nekename." This is a true story, confirmed by old documents.)ESL classes used to be taught by linguists, but I think it has grown so specialized that in many universities that link no longer exists.I'm writing about the American system, of course. I have no idea how the Brits/Europeans do it.

[Vertuas]

Thank you for clearing that up guys.Personally i still think that "an HTML document" sounds wrong as the proper pronuncation of the "h" is surely "haitch" with a "h" and the begining. But i guess that's down to opinion!I agree that XML should be "an" because the pronunciation of "x" (ecks) begins wih a "e" sound.Apologies for the incorrect spellings i should have checked before i brought up english!Other than that w3schools is fantastic. I am just reading about AJAX! Vert

[Jonas]

Thank you for clearing that up guys.Personally i still think that "an HTML document" sounds wrong as the proper pronuncation of the "h" is surely "haitch" with a "h" and the begining. But i guess that's down to opinion!I agree that XML should be "an" because the pronunciation of "x" (ecks) begins wih a "e" sound.Apologies for the incorrect spellings i should have checked before i brought up english!Other than that w3schools is fantastic. I am just reading about AJAX! Vert

Heh, no problem about the spelling, just messing with you. :)It all comes down to what you really think the sound "haitch" or "aitch" is. In terms of articulatory phonetics, it's a problematic phonem. The "h" can be articulated as a voiceless glottal fricative or a voiced glottal fricative. Either way it is indeterminate in behaviour, sometimes acting as a consonant, sometimes as a vowel. The sound, not the letter, is really more of a "breath" (look up glottis) than an articulated sound, because it is made in the throat, as opposed to the mouth. Personally, I pronounce the letter "aitch" or "eitch", with a silent an absent "h" at the beginning.