N1CK3RS0N Posted March 24, 2010 Share Posted March 24, 2010 I may be going insane? Not sure.Trolls on another "design" forum told me that HTML/CSS has nothing to do with web-design. It is pure web-development and development ONLY. Which is odd. As any job site I had ever been too in the past 10 years I've been in the field listed responsibilities of a web-designer as "graphic arts, html, css".I would qualify the following jobs with these duties.Graphic Artist - Image creation, image design, concept design.Web-Designer - Website design and static content. Includes the duties of Graphic Artists as well as HTML/CSS coding.Web-Developer - Website development and dynamic content. Includes duties of a Web-Designer as well as development skills such as PHP/ASP/SQL.Apparently there is no such thing as a graphic artist as I'm told. They said its actually a web-designer. And what I consider a web-designer is actually front-end developer, and what I consider a web-developer is actually a back-end developer.Or you could break it down by the following skills:Photoshop - Graphic Arts, DesignHTML - Design, DevelopmentCSS - Design, DevelopmentJavascript - Design, DevelopmentPHP - DevelopmentASP - DevelopmentSQL - DevelopmentFlash - Graphic Arts, Design, DevelopmentBasically my idea of the various skills of creating websites is that each possess qualities of the others skills in some way or another in various degrees.I just wanted to hear others opinions on what they consider a web-designer to be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boen_robot Posted March 24, 2010 Share Posted March 24, 2010 The titles in the web profession world are very diverse and overlapping, so it's understandable some people may think one is "completely" belonging in one category, when in most other fields, there is indeed a concrete separation of roles.I personally understand it like that:Web designer - Graphics, HTML, CSS, SVG (maybe also Flash)Front-end web developer - HTML, CSS, JavaScript, ActionScript (maybe also with actual Flash graphics)(Back-end) web developer - PHP and other server side languages, MySQL or other DB (maybe also frond end stuff, if those are dynamically generated) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
N1CK3RS0N Posted March 24, 2010 Author Share Posted March 24, 2010 The titles in the web profession world are very diverse and overlapping, so it's understandable some people may think one is "completely" belonging in one category, when in most other fields, there is indeed a concrete separation of roles.I personally understand it like that:Web designer - Graphics, HTML, CSS, SVG (maybe also Flash)Front-end web developer - HTML, CSS, JavaScript, ActionScript (maybe also with actual Flash graphics)(Back-end) web developer - PHP and other server side languages, MySQL or other DB (maybe also frond end stuff, if those are dynamically generated)Thank-you. I just don't understand how someone could consider the actual coding of the physical aspects of a website has having nothing to do with design. I don't think they understood that I wasn't saying they were wrong by calling HTML/CSS front-end development, but merely they were wrong by saying it isn't part of web-design.A lot of different careers or titles, whatever you want to call them, have a good amount of overlapping abilities. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
N1CK3RS0N Posted March 24, 2010 Author Share Posted March 24, 2010 Just wanted to add this to sort of cover how different skills relate to each other. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boen_robot Posted March 24, 2010 Share Posted March 24, 2010 You've added a 3D a.k.a. CAD designer into the mix... that's a whole other "circle" on its own. A 2D designer is not always a good 3D designer, and vice versa. Adobe Photoshop and Adobe Illustrator are the only design prorams that are truly about a graphic designer.Besides, 3D (in general) rarely appears on the web. And if it did, it would again be a separate profession. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
N1CK3RS0N Posted March 24, 2010 Author Share Posted March 24, 2010 You've added a 3D a.k.a. CAD designer into the mix... that's a whole other "circle" on its own. A 2D designer is not always a good 3D designer, and vice versa. Adobe Photoshop and Adobe Illustrator are the only design prorams that are truly about a graphic designer.Besides, 3D (in general) rarely appears on the web. And if it did, it would again be a separate profession.Reason I list it is because I know several designers who use it to generate 3d images and then use them in their design. Same with C4D.http://tit0.deviantart.com/art/Finestate-91630179He has done better work, but he is simply amazing with 3D type images. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Synook Posted March 25, 2010 Share Posted March 25, 2010 I do know of a few designers who are completely hopeless at any form of coding, and rely on developers or PSD to HTML services. Also, I wouldn't class a "designer" as having knowledge of any language - "web designers" maybe, but there is much more to design (print, 3D, branding, etc.) than just the web.Of course, it helps a lot (if you are a web designer) to know the fundamentals of front-end development, but it really depends on the role you are taking - for example working as a designer in a large agency who may do web work versus working as a freelancer. Also, I really wouldn't expect a web designer to know JavaScript beyond the very basics. That is very much in the realm of front-end development. But the more skills the better - if you are both a Cinema 4D geek and a JavaScript ninja, then good work! But it is very hard to focus on everything, and if you can produce brilliant designs but don't know the difference between divisions and spans, I wouldn't hold it against you.Basically, every company has their own requirements, and each one may define the position "web designer" differently. There is no "one true" skillset. One can focus on having a wide range of competencies, or focus on perfecting one skill - and each will open up different opportunities.For example, take this recent job advertisement for a "frontend engineer": http://www.jolicloud.com/jobs/frontend-engineer. Note the knowledge required. Extensive knowledge of web technologies notably HTML5, JavaScript, CSS.Deep experience designing modular, object-oriented JavaScript.User Interface design knowledge.Curiosity for playing with new browser technologies and 3rd-party APIs.Knowledge of Adobe Photoshop and Illustrator a plus. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boen_robot Posted March 25, 2010 Share Posted March 25, 2010 Reason I list it is because I know several designers who use it to generate 3d images and then use them in their design. Same with C4D.Still, you don't have to be a 3D designer to be a 2D or web designer. And for the most part, you have to be a 2D designer to be a web designer. And you can be a 3D designer without being a 2D or web designer.I do know of a few designers who are completely hopeless at any form of coding, and rely on developers or PSD to HTML services. Also, I wouldn't class a "designer" as having knowledge of any language - "web designers" maybe, but there is much more to design (print, 3D, branding, etc.) than just the web.Yeah. I'd agree. A person who knows how to work with graphics software, can do print related work and UI related concepts, but doesn't have any clue about any code, for me is a "(2D/graphic) designer", but not a "web designer". That doesn't imply any disrespect though - graphic designers too often produce designs that are beyond what people like me can even imagine (let alone do). So, if you have a graphic designer, and a front-end web developer (or a back-end web developer that's also skilled in front end technologies), you can produce great work by making the developer turn the design into code, copiying pieces from the designer's sketches.BTW, I see we also added Silverlight into the mix...Let me put the new terms in the same fashion as above, at least in the way that I understand them:(3D/CAD) designer - 3DS Max, Maya, AutoCAD, ArchiCAD, Cinema 4D and similar other programs.Print designer - Photoshop, Illustrator and the like, Word (maybe also 3D designer skills), applying them for print works.(2D/Graphics) designer - Print designer skills (maybe also Flash or Silvelight with Blend), but applying them for print and/or screen (web or desktop) works.Web designer - (2D/Graphics) designer skills, HTML, CSS, SVG (maybe also Flash or Silverlight with Blend)Front-end web developer - HTML, CSS, JavaScript, ActionScript (maybe also with actual Flash graphics), Silverlight with Visual Studio(Back-end) web developer - PHP and other server side languages, MySQL or other DBs (maybe also frond end stuff, if those are dynamically generated) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
N1CK3RS0N Posted March 25, 2010 Author Share Posted March 25, 2010 Still, you don't have to be a 3D designer to be a 2D or web designer. And for the most part, you have to be a 2D designer to be a web designer. And you can be a 3D designer without being a 2D or web designer.I know you don't HAVE to. I was just listing some of the different things and what category they would fall under. You don't HAVE to know all to consider yourself in that category. I consider myself a web designer but I do not know everything I listed under the category. Just xHTML/CSS. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zeeshan_2011 Posted April 3, 2010 Share Posted April 3, 2010 web designer is a person who design sites. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thescientist Posted April 3, 2010 Share Posted April 3, 2010 web designer is a person who design sites.what? did you even read the thread? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeffman Posted April 3, 2010 Share Posted April 3, 2010 ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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