Html 5

[krlbzh]

I using IE 9 and Firefox and with all adventages I am little dissapointed in new capabilities in HTML 5.IE9 and Firefox have user managemant like browsers which have total HTML support but this is not true.All of us knows how HTML 4 is thing in past but I am little curious when I may use total power of HTML 5 (total support).Because some important things which we use through forms; text boxes havent behaviors jet in main browsers.Does somebody have clear vision when we get HTML 5 in total work ?

[thescientist]

Well, first the specification has to be completed. Then all browsers have to implement it. I reckon another 2-3 years or so for all that to happen. And so, HTML4 will remain as the defacto standard specification.

[jeffman]

And do not forget that all users do not immediately drop their old browser and use the newest one. Sometimes this is because they worry about the stability of a new browser. Sometimes, they CANNOT adopt a new browser because their processor or operating system will not support it, and upgrading to a new computer is not possible.Even today, more than 50% of IE users have not upgraded to IE8.So even when the latest versions of browsers have adopted all the new HTML5 technology, a lot of users will not have access to it. If you want to write pages for your friends, that might not be a problem. If you are writing pages for anyone, it is a serious problem.

[krlbzh]

And do not forget that all users do not immediately drop their old browser and use the newest one. Sometimes this is because they worry about the stability of a new browser. Sometimes, they CANNOT adopt a new browser because their processor or operating system will not support it, and upgrading to a new computer is not possible.Even today, more than 50% of IE users have not upgraded to IE8.So even when the latest versions of browsers have adopted all the new HTML5 technology, a lot of users will not have access to it. If you want to write pages for your friends, that might not be a problem. If you are writing pages for anyone, it is a serious problem.

New technologies coming in small steps..Can we browsing through the clouds ?

[boen_robot]

Can we browsing through the clouds ?

Whaaaa?!?What's the flavor of the "Marketing hype" acid you've been drinking? It sounds like "CEO Keynote", but I also have some doubts that it's "Misinformed non-tech article" instead.

[krlbzh]

Whaaaa?!?What's the flavor of the "Marketing hype" acid you've been drinking? It sounds like "CEO Keynote", but I also have some doubts that it's "Misinformed non-tech article" instead.

You are in Bucurest cloud..

[Fmdpa]

There are numerous HTML5 features implemented in Opera 11 (see my signature). Webkit browsers (Safari and Chrome) also have some support for HTML5. However, most people are still stuck on IE and Firefox, which are the two browsers in which HTML5 support is grimmest. There is no problem, though, with being a step ahead of things and start using HTML5 features. Just use them as enhancements that degrade gracefully.

[[dx]]

One good thing which could be useful is browser recognization.So we can simply use like till now for IE and so for all other, instead of using javascripts, and other things.

[jeffman]

Actually, it's almost never a good idea to browser sniff. It is a good idea to test whether a feature is available. If it is, use it. If not, do something else. A simple example is getElementsByClassName. Not all browsers support this yet. But eventually they will. So you can do a thing like this:

if (document.getElementsByClassName) {   // do it the easy way} else {   // do it the hard way}

When all browsers do support getElementsByClassName, this routine will not have to be changed. The code will still work.

[[dx]]

Yeah, but what point is of this code if every browser supports it. It will work then in every browser. I'm talking about CSS changes, like you must make fixes for every browsers. I make full CSS file for firefox, then make fixes for rest. And I'm using some javascript which check is it opera, chrome, ie or safari. Works fine, but should be fine to avoid it.

[boen_robot]

The only browsers which really need fixes are IE8 and below. For them, you have conditional comments. That's still not quite browser sniffing, because you are applying a browser specific feature to fix a legacy bug of said browser. In other words, you're "blacklisting" browsers that need fixes, and let the others go along without the fixes. Browser sniffing is when you "whitelist" browsers, and cripple down others. Not a good idea.(the only exception for when other browsers need fixes that I can think of is the contains() method, which is not available in Firefox; object detection helps with that)

[ShadowMage]

The only browsers which really need fixes are IE8 and below. For them, you have conditional comments. That's still not quite browser sniffing

Well, actually, I would consider that browser sniffing. You are still detecting which browser the user has even if it's using a feature specific to that browser. It's just a form of "acceptable" browser sniffing for the reasons you state.

[[dx]]

Well, I made some site and I must also make a lil bit of fixes to Safari, Chrome and Opera and much more for IE.I don't know which stupid brain designed IE much different from other browsers while working with CSS.

[jeffman]

With few exceptions, techniques can be found for CSS and HTML that will make documents render essentially the same in all browsers. It takes a bit more work, but it's easier than unique stylesheets. Occasionally I resort to IE conditionals. Definitely NOT for every document. More like 1 in 100.It's not so much the Microsoft is stupid. Many aspects of CSS3 and HTML5 are things they pioneered. But they sure have been reluctant to learn from the browser wars.

[boen_robot]

Well, actually, I would consider that browser sniffing. You are still detecting which browser the user has even if it's using a feature specific to that browser. It's just a form of "acceptable" browser sniffing for the reasons you state.

OK, fine... it's a kind of browser sniffing (one that's a werid mix of feature detection - the feature being conditional comments - combined with user agent detection - that being the condition itself), but one that doesn't do the kind of harm "classical browser sniffing" (i.e. user agent inspection) does.

[jeffman]

It's not like browser sniffing violates a commandment. Where object/feature detection works, sniffing should be avoided. In a few circumstances, it does not exist. Sometimes a try/capture technique will resolve the problem. If all you have left is IE conditionals, it is a legitimate tool.Sometimes you have to get creative, as when determining the available screen width. Some browsers count the scrollbars as "available"; some don't. Workarounds exist.But traditional browser sniffing? Like testing for document.all or document.layers or parsing the user agent? No way. Any script that does that stuff was probably written 8-10 years ago and should not be imitated. Any script that even mentions the word "Netscape" in a comment is probably BAD NEWS.

[Fmdpa]

Yeah, but what point is of this code if every browser supports it. It will work then in every browser. I'm talking about CSS changes, like you must make fixes for every browsers. I make full CSS file for firefox, then make fixes for rest. And I'm using some javascript which check is it opera, chrome, ie or safari. Works fine, but should be fine to avoid it.

Besides vendor-prefixed CSS3 properties, why would you write code different for Firefox than for Opera, Chrome and Safari? None of them have the weird quirks present in ancient IE browsers.

[NelsonMuntz741258963]

You should read this article HTML 5 will be done in 2014

[jeffman]

The most important thing to notice there was this:

“Developers can use HTML5 now and we encourage them to do so,” Ian Jacobs, head of W3C marketing, tells Webmonkey.

[peterkeen]

Take users into consideration. Forget the new features and powerful functions of Html. Just think of the need of users.

[jeffman]

Take users into consideration.

Absolutely. But you can do that if you build in graceful degradation. (That is, write your document so that if a new feature is not supported, its absence is not missed, or you fall back on older features.)

Forget the new features and powerful functions of Html.

That advice is a bit too strong. Some features we call HTML5 are already supported by all major browsers, including IE7. Most of these were actually developed by IE as proprietary features, and incorporated into HTML5 after the fact. The classic case is the .innerHTML property. (Raise your hands if you already knew .innerHTML is HTML5. Anyone? Anyone?)There are also ways that the new semantic elements of HTML5 can be supported by all browsers, including IE7.

[Fmdpa]

The classic case is the .innerHTML property.

And I've already heard talk of it being deprecated in the future...I like it much better than the clumsy "nodeValue" workarounds.

[jeffman]

It's been a while since I benchmarked, but for a long time it was LOTS faster than appending elements using DOM methods. When that is no longer the case, I can happily say bye bye. Once you have a library of DOM techniques, you just plug and play.It's nice for debugging, though . . .