W3S Forum Project: Discussion

[Chocolate570]

Do you have questions about the forum community project? Comments? Suggestions? Just post them here!This topic is only for discussion. Later on, it will be cleaned and made into the voting topic. For now, no nominations or anything like that, just discussion. Thank you.Choco|-----------SERVERSIDE CODE-----------|-Crontthenoob(or x/c/g)-Reportingsjr(or x/c/j)-Dan the Prof(or x/c/j)-Akula Dude(or x/c)-SFB|--------------------------------------------||-------------JavaScript Code-------------|-Chocolate570 -aleksanteri-Stewart-Littlegoat|---------------------------------------------||-------------XHTML/CSS--------------|-Aspnetguy(or j/g/s)-Jonas-Littlegoat|-----------------------------------------||--------------Graphics--------------|-Aspnetguy(or j/g/s)|--------------------------------------|

[justsomeguy]

Why a 3 week deadline? Is there a specific reason for 3 weeks? Isn't it a little arbitrary to set a deadline at all when we haven't even decided on the scope of the project yet, or even the language? Why even have a deadline?I'll mention this as a possible project: since most everyone here who is actively trying to learn web programming is probably thinking of this as a career, there is one tool that can benefit everyone, and also be a benefit to our clients if they ask for one themselves. That would be a system to manage clients and projects, where the administrator can set up details for their clients, including users with access to the system, and information about the client and users. Clients could be set up with projects, and projects would include things like milestones, dates, a discussion forum, file manager, etc. Client users could log in and see the progress of milestones, discuss the project, download or upload files, etc. A permission system would need to control all access of the administrators, client managers, and client users to the different areas of the system, and it would probably also be beneficial to include a logging system that would log access to the system, changes made, files downloaded, etc. Logging database errors or things like that would also give the developers the ability to log in after an error has happened and review the error message, including the file and line it happened on.Also, if this is an open source community project, it would only make sense to use open source technologies like PHP and MySQL to handle this. I don't think it would make much sense to create an open source system that requires a Microsoft server to run it.

[aspnetguy]

Why a 3 week deadline? Is there a specific reason for 3 weeks? Isn't it a little arbitrary to set a deadline at all when we haven't even decided on the scope of the project yet, or even the language? Why even have a deadline?I'll mention this as a possible project: since most everyone here who is actively trying to learn web programming is probably thinking of this as a career, there is one tool that can benefit everyone, and also be a benefit to our clients if they ask for one themselves. That would be a system to manage clients and projects, where the administrator can set up details for their clients, including users with access to the system, and information about the client and users. Clients could be set up with projects, and projects would include things like milestones, dates, a discussion forum, file manager, etc. Client users could log in and discuss the project, download or upload files, etc. A permission system would need to control all access of the administrators, client managers, and client users to the different areas of the system, and it would probably also be beneficial to include a logging system that would log access to the system, changes made, files downloaded, etc. Logging database errors or things like that would also give the developers the ability to log in after an error has happened and review the error message, including the file and line it happened on.

that would definately be a benefit to everyone but is a large project. We want to start off with something that isn't too big or hard for the same reason we decided to set a deadline...people get bored!If the project is too big or is allowed to drag on for too long people will lose interest and quit. Your idea would be great if we can get enough people together to decently divide up the projec tinto modules for different people to work on.

[joecoolaug]

Do you have questions about the forum community project? Comments? Suggestions? Just post them here!This topic is only for discussion. Later on, it will be cleaned and made into the voting topic. For now, no nominations or anything like that, just discussion. Thank you.Choco

What is the project for (what will we accomplish with it), or will we vote on topic of the project later?

[Chocolate570]

Hello,I said a 3-week limit because any project that would take longer than that to code is not considered. So maybe it might be less than 3 weeks, but not by much. :)Your idea is pretty good. I'll put it on the ballot when that gets started :)Does anyone else have any suggestions?Choco

[Jack McKalling]

Maybe we (the project I mean) can create a some sort of application, that individuals can download to create their own website Some sort of code generator :)But not really a code generator, than it would be a concurring application like dreamweaver. I mean a meta generator if one can call it that. A system with which users can build their site on. In short: a website template with managers functions

[aspnetguy]

Maybe we (the project I mean) can create a full online application, that individuals can download to create their own website pages Or for a login system, some sort of code generator :)But not really a code generator, than it would be a concurring application like dreamweaver. I mean a meta generator if one can call it that. A system with which users can build their site on. In short: a website template with managers functions

soooo...basically what justsomeguy said?

[Jack McKalling]

I hadn't read that edit yet..Well yeah actually like that. I only described it in beginners terms, and I wasn't thinking about big systems yet.. it still is meant for just three weeks isn't it :)I more mean just for the pages, and a preset file and code management. (simple but good for non programmers' websites)

[Chocolate570]

What is the project for (what will we accomplish with it), or will we vote on topic of the project later?

The project is just so that everyone in the community can have a bit more experience working as part of a team on a big application. The point of this topic is so that everyone can submit ideas for the application. I'll then put them on a ballot, and everyone on the forum will vote on which one they'd like. Does that make sense?

[aspnetguy]

A simple template engine would be a good idea...I am going to be staeting one soon, I hope, in C#.If this idea does get choosen, I would be happy to share some of my planning documentation.

[Jack McKalling]

And if it does get chosen, I will be the first one that downloads it (or use it online if that is the result) because I have been considering making such system/engine myself for months (but declined starting it because of the largeness)

[aspnetguy]

Since I switched aspnetguy.com over to community server 2.1 I have really enjoyed the admin panel to make changes instead of managing the web pages manually, managing Word Press and managing IPB all seperately.If I could do that with the websites I maintain then it would be a big help.

[justsomeguy]

A template engine is not a bad idea, but there are a lot of complications with it. I made one myself, and it got pretty ugly pretty quick. The main problem was for a looping structure, I wanted to be able to define a block of HTML that would be repeated for an array or dataset. And also to have 2 blocks of HTML, where they get alternated between, or a "general" block and a "specific" block where all items in the dataset go into "general" except one that is marked as being selected which goes in the "specific" block. Argh, that's why it got complicated. It's complicated to even talk about. But the template engine ended up being recursive, and has a few switch statements that are something like 10 or 12 levels nested. But, if a template engine gets decided on then things like that could be limited. It's pretty easy to create one with an IF structure, included files, basic string replacement, automatic form fields, etc. That was looking pretty simple until I tried to tackle the dataset structure, but it wasn't very useful to me without a dataset structure.Another possibility might be just a homepage admin center like SFB is thinking about. A password-protected place to set up polls, page counters, etc. The features would need to be thought out.Or here's a novel idea.. how about a forum?

[boen_robot]

The project is just so that everyone in the community can have a bit more experience working as part of a team on a big application. The point of this topic is so that everyone can submit ideas for the application. I'll then put them on a ballot, and everyone on the forum will vote on which one they'd like. Does that make sense?

Um... no... at least to me it doesn't. I don't grasp the idea here. I saw it earlier today and thought is has to do with the W3Schools' forum template, but then again, there's already a topic (or two?) on that.So if it's not that.... what is it?If I have understood correctly, you mean a cooperational work of W3Schools' members to dilever a big application in the end that is in it's core, an Open Source project (there isn't any way around this if it's going to be developed by many parties) made by this whole community.If that is correct, then I agree with justsomeguy that there shouldn't be any kind of deadline. Every person's contribution must be synced with others' so there isn't a way this can be done with the same speed/quality ratio as with a single party and by party I mean few people that see themselves and can test everything on-the-fly.And what exactly is the idea of this topic? To decide what "the big application" is? Well, if so, I have many ideas, but considering my lack of skills in C languages and/or JAVA, as well as the fact I don't know the skill set each of you has, I wouldn't make much suggestions.One thing that can be done with OOP languages is Firefox extensions for the stuff in the "Working Draft" topic as well as other rendering enhancements I personally could suggest (you too could... in that topic that is).Another thing may be some sort of plug-in or GUI for technologies that don't have such otherwise. What would you say for an RDF generator? There are RSS ones, some of which support exporting in RSS 1.0 which is RDF based, but there isn't an application that uses RDF's full potencial or at least I don't know of such.Or maybe even some plug-ins for popular editors. I would really like to see Dreamwaver 8 being able to eliminate line breaks on save and arrange the XML and HTML documents as a tree on opening. I know that StyleMaster can do this with CSS files, but Dreamwaver can't... neither with CSS nor markup files.If it mustn't include OOP programming, then I guess a template for W3Schools' forum or mods for it might be the first good step, but then again, there's a need for the admins' approval for this. Another thing could be some sort of libraries with common issues to be loaded. For example, a whole zip file containing *.js files that when loaded fix certain IE6 CSS bugs, and/or XSLT templates for common needs (leave that part to me ), and/or CSS layouts, etc.

[aspnetguy]

it is to suggest ideas for a web app (in PHP,ASP, or .Net, or whatever you guys decide).Justsomeguy, here is the schema for my template engine db http://www40.brinkster.com/aspnetguy2/create_schema.txtAs you can see it will handle multiple websites, each page imports a template (text file with html template code), will have GUI to change text, images, and menus

[boen_robot]

it is to suggest ideas for a web app (in PHP,ASP, or .Net, or whatever you guys decide).Justsomeguy, here is the schema for my template engine db http://www40.brinkster.com/aspnetguy2/create_schema.txtAs you can see it will handle multiple websites, each page imports a template (text file with html template code), will have GUI to change text, images, and menus

It returns "Error 403: Forbidden" to me...

[aspnetguy]

hmmm...works for me...well here it is anyways

CREATE DATABASE DotNetEngineGOCREATE TABLE DotNetEngine.dbo.Site(  SiteID          INT          NOT NULL IDENTITY PRIMARY KEY,  SiteName        VARCHAR(255) NOT NULL,  Domain          VARCHAR(255) NOT NULL,   DefaultTemplate VARCHAR(255) NOT NULL,  DefaultMenu     INT          NULL     ,  ImagesPath      VARCHAR(255) NOT NULL,  DocumentsPath   VARCHAR(255) NOT NULL,   Online          BIT          NOT NULL,  Homepage        INT          NOT NULL )CREATE TABLE DotNetEngine.dbo.Page(  PageID          INT          NOT NULL IDENTITY PRIMARY KEY,  SiteID          INT          NOT NULL REFERENCES Site(SiteID),  PageName        VARCHAR(255) NOT NULL,  MetaKeywords    VARCHAR(255) NULL,  MetaDescription VARCHAR(255) NULL,  Approved        BIT          NOT NULL,  StartDate       DATETIME     NOT NULL,  ExpiryDate      DATETIME     NOT NULL)CREATE TABLE DotNetEngine.dbo.Text(  TextID    INT          NOT NULL IDENTITY PRIMARY KEY,  PageID    INT          NOT NULL REFERENCES Page(PageID),  TextName  VARCHAR(255) NULL,  Text      TEXT         NULL,  TextOrder INT          NOT NULL)CREATE TABLE DotNetEngine.dbo.Image(  ImageID    INT          NOT NULL IDENTITY PRIMARY KEY,  PageID     INT          NOT NULL REFERENCES Page(PageID),  ImageName  VARCHAR(255) NOT NULL,  ImageAlt   VARCHAR(255) NULL,  ImageSrc   VARCHAR(255) NOT NULL,  ImageOrder INT          NOT NULL,  ImageUrl   VARCHAR(255) NULL)CREATE TABLE DotNetEngine.dbo.MenuType(  MenuTypeID   INT          NOT NULL IDENTITY PRIMARY KEY,  MenuTypeName VARCHAR(255) NOT NULL)CREATE TABLE DotNetEngine.dbo.Menu(  MenuID     INT          NOT NULL IDENTITY PRIMARY KEY,  PageID     INT          NOT NULL REFERENCES Page(PageID),  MenuName   VARCHAR(255) NOT NULL,  MenuTypeID INT          NOT NULL REFERENCES MenuType(MenuTypeID))CREATE TABLE DotNetEngine.dbo.MenuItem(  MenuItemID     INT          NOT NULL IDENTITY PRIMARY KEY,  MenuID         INT          NOT NULL REFERENCES Menu(MenuID),  MenuItemName   VARCHAR(255) NOT NULL,  MenuItemUrl    VARCHAR(255) NOT NULL,  MenuItemImage  VARCHAR(255) NULL,  MenuItemBullet VARCHAR(255) NULL,  MenuItemOrder  INT          NOT NULL)ALTER TABLE DotNetEngine.dbo.SiteADD CONSTRAINT FK_MenuID FOREIGN KEY (DefaultMenu) REFERENCES Menu(MenuID)ALTER TABLE DotNetEngine.dbo.SiteADD CONSTRAINT FK_Homepage FOREIGN KEY (Homepage)REFERENCES Page(PageID)

[Jack McKalling]

I think that the thing the project would result in, should not be too complicated, so not-much-advanced programmers can be part of the project too, or the part that they work on should not be too complicated, or else the project would be devoted to only the full and advanced programmers, or the ones that know too much, if can say it that way

[aspnetguy]

Well the project will be broke down into roles. There will be a group of Server-Side programmers, there will be a group doing graphics, javascript, xhtml, css...etcWhat ever the needs of the project it will be broken into teams based on the volunteers skills.

[Chocolate570]

Thanks for answering the questions, aspnetguy. I've been pretty busy, and will be out for the next 2-3 days...so keep the suggestions coming, i'll look over them when I get back.

[SFB]

Another possibility might be just a homepage admin center like SFB is thinking about. A password-protected place to set up polls, page counters, etc. The features would need to be thought out.

o goodie i have a second brain now. it knows what i am thinking. basically i am creating a bunch of stuff i have thought about adding to my snowforts website but decided not to because it doesnt seem to fit the theme anymore. eventually i will sort of connect them together and make a website in a box sort of thing. I should learn some stuff about sql but dcole may or maynot have that set up yet. I havent tried it. just about any of my things could easily be converted from using txt files to using a databse.

[Cronthenoob]

What if we could supply simple applications for starting web developers?Prebuilt guestbooks, page counters, things like that.Users could log in and edit something, submit it, and then copy and paste the code it spits out.Thats probably along the same lines as things everyone else was suggesting.

[Jack McKalling]

When this project is done, we could have plans for a sequel, couldn't we? So what about Creating a very, full, complicated, open source, whatever application, step by step? One part of the application per project, like first a loginsystem, then a questbook, etc. And all for beginner developers, that they can download the application or use it online, to set up their site when this is completed :)I can see it all before me "The great hmhmhm application of the developers at W3Schools"

[Cronthenoob]

I really want to be a part of this some way or another, will be a great project to add to my resume

[Jack McKalling]

I really want to be a part of this some way or another, will be a great project to add to my resume

Count me in too I will never not want to be part of such potentially popular project