HTML and beyond - BUT WHERE???

[zaniac]

HI ALL!!!!!!!!

My first post and hopefully not my last. Last week I decided to have a go at learning the HTML language in the hope that one day I will be able to create my own website. I am so far enjoying using what I've learnt, but am also starting to realise that this could well become a sort of hobby for me. I am using the HTML lessons provided by W3 and feel that I'm doing ok. I am in the process of learning the basics, having only got as far as the first example on the 'HTML Text Formatting' page. I have just been practising commands such as 'italics', 'big' and 'subscript'.Having briefly looked at this website I see all those different languages and am a little confused. I then look under XML and see all those subheadings such as learn 'Xforms', 'DTD' and 'Xpath' and it makes me more confused. After learning HTML, should I then move onto learning XHTML and then onto CSS, etc? Basically learn everything in the order that it has been listed on this site?Any help and advice is greatly appreciated, many thanks in advance

[justsomeguy]

XHTML is HTML that conforms to the XML spec. So, if you know HTML, there are only a few minor changes to make it XHTML. CSS is used for styling and formatting, such as borders, fonts, colors, etc, and should probably ideally be learned alongside HTML. Although it's not necessary. But most sites these days use CSS instead of HTML formatting, which is no longer in official use.You may want to look into Javascript if you want to make the page change while it is loaded (roll over a link and change an image, or click a button and make something appear on the page, or open a popup window, etc). XML is one way to store data, but it's not the only way. PHP is the dominant server-side language, which sites use to interact with a database, or send email, or manage user logins, or do other things with the web server itself.

[Stephen_Allen]

I would also suggest, as justsomeguy has, that you learn CSS alongside HTML. Also you should look in to learning javascript.I'm in the same boat as you, and am learning website design bit by bit. And I totally agree that website design is a brilliant hobby, if you have the patience to learn it.Further advise would be to find someone you know that has experience and knowledge in the world of website design, and bring them on board. That way, you have a second source of information if these forums don't help.

[zaniac]

Hey folks, Thanks for your replies, as I had posted earlier very much appreciated. Ok, am I right then in thinking that CSS and HTML/XHTML languages are used in conjunction with one another? I will look into CSS soon, but if it would be easiest, prefer to do the whole HTML thing first. I think that one thing which will really keep me going, is the thought of seeing a result of something which I've personally created.I am currently using notepad as suggested by W3, but since I've saved my first htm page, the program itself has gone a little strange. When I doubleclick the notepad icon on my desktop. The program starts up as normal in the middle of the screen, but all I see is the blue bar. If I maximise the program, I can see the nomal notepad screen. Has anyone else experienced this?

[justsomeguy]

Ok, am I right then in thinking that CSS and HTML/XHTML languages are used in conjunction with one another?

Pretty much. HTML is used nowadays for the page structure, and CSS is used for the page style. HTML does contains elements to change things like bold, italic, font color, etc, but people have stopped using those in favor of using CSS to do it because it increases the separation between the data and the presentation, rather then having everything in one document. If you have an HTML page that has all of your formatting information in the HTML tags, it makes it a pain if someone wants you to make the headings on all pages bold, or use a different font, or whatever. With CSS, you typically make the change in one place and everything picks it up.As for notepad, I'm not sure what's going on there, but you may enjoy using a text editor that includes syntax highlighting to help you see what you're writing a little easier. I have a link to ConTEXT in my signature, and there is a topic in the HTML forum for HTML editors, a lot of people like notepad2 or notepad++.

[sanprince]

Hello Everone... I am not creating a new topic as I too have a similar confusion like many.... I am also a total newbie here... and someone told me to learn 'C programming' to first... then to scripts .... Iam not sure which, where to start and...... etc.... IS there any hierarchy of these languages.. i mean which should be done first then the next .... Can anyone please guide me to a basic structure.... which should be learnt first?? Thanx in advance..

[boen_robot]

Whoever told you that is either a bigger noob then yourself, or you didn't understood his/her point correctly.C(++) is an OOP(Object Oriented Programming) language. It's used to create Desktop applications. You know, like Browsers, Players, Messangers, etc.The languages in W3Schools are for web programming or in other words- for creating websites. This includes a scope of a whole bunch of other languages and most (but not all) have nothing to do with C(++) programs.If you came here with the ambition to create web sites, then just read the earlier posts in this topic. You need the languages in this order: HTML, XHTML, CSS. From then on, there are many things to take, some of which may do fine without the other.There's JavaScript, for manipulating the page on the client side. The true power of it is that things are done instantly without the page being reloaded. That brings interactivity into the page.There are server side scripting languages like PHP, ASP, .NET, Cold Fusion, etc. In short, they can practically do everything you can't otherwise do with client side languages. But your server is requred to support the requred language.There's XML and XML based lagnguages. Each of which has different purpose and who's concept is the hardest thing to grasp. Their most important quality is portability- They may need server side scripting or client side scripting or an OOP language to run, but it's not requred, nor it's a fixed language.If you've come here with the idea to create a Desktop application, then you're in the wrong place. W3Schools doesn't teach OOP programming and there's probably no one here that can giude you. Theese languages are most of the times learned in either large books or in Universities.

[sanprince]

Whoever told you that is either a bigger noob then yourself, or you didn't understood his/her point correctly.C(++) is an OOP(Object Oriented Programming) language. It's used to create Desktop applications. You know, like Browsers, Players, Messangers, etc.The languages in W3Schools are for web programming or in other words- for creating websites. This includes a scope of a whole bunch of other languages and most (but not all) have nothing to do with C(++) programs. ............................................... Theese languages are most of the times learned in either large books or in Universities.

Thanks again for the info boen_robot.

[Yuval200]

Basicly-HTML is for building the skeleton of the website, such as tables, forms, images, links, text ect, and XHTML is a stricter version of HTML.CSS is for designing an HTML page, such as designing text (color, size, type of font ect) ect.Javascript is for client-side, lets you check input by the user and stuff, it can do magic :)Theres more but since I'm not that good in English, I'll let others do the work for me :)One last thing, what I suggest for you to learn in the following order:HTML >> XHTML >> CSS >> Javascript (Then HTML DOM) >> PHP (+ Data-base stuff)

[sanprince]

Thanks bro.... Very simple yet informative... now atleast i got some starting point.... and don't worry abt. ur english its really good... anyways nobody is conducting any english grammer or spelling bee competition here.. more advices from u and from others r also welcome... thanxs again...

[Ruud Hermans]

Theres more but since I'm not that good in English, I'll let others do the work for me :)One last thing, what I suggest for you to learn in the following order:HTML >> XHTML >> CSS >> Javascript (Then HTML DOM) >> PHP (+ Data-base stuff)

No offence but wouldn't it be more easy to learn Basic ore Python before making the step to PHP and before learning about databases I would recommend to first read something about SQL.Ruud Hermans

[sanprince]

No offence but wouldn't it be more easy to learn Basic ore Python before making the step to PHP and before learning about databases I would recommend to first read something about SQL.Ruud Hermans

So now it is HTML >> XHTML >> CSS >> Javascript (Then HTML DOM) >>Python>> PHP (+ Data-base stuff(SQL) .. isn't it?

[boen_robot]

Bull$hit!Python is made for a lot more then server side scripting and it's harder to install (as far as I'm aware of). It's also not related to PHP in any way. In other words: useless. Skip it or learn it if you won't use PHP, ASP(.NET), Cold Fusion, JSP, etc.

[Ruud Hermans]

Python is made for a lot more then server side scripting and it's harder to install (as far as I'm aware of). It's also not related to PHP in any way. In other words: useless. Skip it or learn it if you won't use PHP, ASP(.NET), Cold Fusion, JSP, etc.

What I tried to point out is that Basic and Python are probably the 2 languages that are used to program that are easiest to learn and of witch you can find the best tutorials on the web.Having knowledge about programming is important in my vision before learning a language like PHP. I don't care how many times the PHP community said it's a easy language to learn, books and tutorials give you great examples but they mostly fail in making you understand how everything works.Ruud Hermans

[justsomeguy]

A good knowledge of programming concepts is necessary to become proficient in any high-level language. But I don't think Basic is the best choice, because it almost seems like the authors of Basic dumbed down the language to the point that the knowledge you gain learning it can't really be applied to other, more functional languages. If you want to learn the concepts behind programming, like data structures, writing efficient algorithms, etc, then I think that school is probably the best way to go.

[Yuval200]

No offence but wouldn't it be more easy to learn Basic ore Python before making the step to PHP and before learning about databases I would recommend to first read something about SQL.Ruud Hermans

As far as I know, Basic has nothing to do with all those internet (Markup, styling, client-side scripting, server-side scripting) languages.I fought that it was clear that if you want to learn PHP with databases, you should know some SQL commands.Oh, sanprice, thanks

[aspnetguy]

BASIC is the grandfather of Visual Basic.Net and is nothing like python or PHP.PHP is written in C and the syntaxes are very close...infact C# and JavaScript syntaxes are closer to PHP than basic or python.There are plenty of good and easy to learn tutorials (like w3schools) that teach PHP and MySql together.

[zaniac]

Hi guys, thanks for your responses again. I've been side-tracked recently, but will continue my html education again soon.I'm probably bringing this thread a little off-topic, but I was looking at software the other day and somebody said to me that Dreamweaver 8 would be a good piece of software for creating websites. I'm not going to buy anything yet, but just wanted to get an idea of what's about. What do you guys think?

[boen_robot]

Hi guys, thanks for your responses again. I've been side-tracked recently, but will continue my html education again soon.I'm probably bringing this thread a little off-topic, but I was looking at software the other day and somebody said to me that Dreamweaver 8 would be a good piece of software for creating websites. I'm not going to buy anything yet, but just wanted to get an idea of what's about. What do you guys think?

Dreamwaver 8 is the best. No question about it. It has WYSIWYG editing capabilities for people that can't code (I strongly advise against them though) and great coding capablities that can suit a wide variety of coding needs. Such features include syntax highlighting, line numbering, auto-complete, auto closing on "</", massive in/outdenting, previewing the code with different browsers and more (vary depending on what are you actually coding).

[zaniac]

Hi boen_robot, thanks for your response. I had heard it was possible to use without knowing much codes, but I think it's best to learn as much as possible. Then you can truely appreciate what you have created more.