Moderation issues...

[aspnetguy]

In all my years on all the message board I ever been on, I never met anyone as offensive as Jonas.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

???Then I guess you haven't been on too many boards...I have met a lot of offensive ppl...and Jonas doesn't even come close to comparing.For the most part this is a very peaceful message board...I have seen many flaming threads and the moderators have a hard time keeping the fights under control...yes some are web design forums too...in the end if the members involoved refuse to cooperate they get banned...AFAIK nobody has been banned from this forum...ever...so lets keep it that way and stop arguing over issues that do not matter.

[Skemcin]

Opinions are not enough to take action with. Proof is.If there is or are any post(s) where you feel jonas has been rude or offensive please feel free to compile them in a well formated document and send them to me. I will review your findings with the other moderators and forum owners.As I have mentioned before, moderators are not necessarily here to provide solutions. So your accusation that he has been unhelpful is irrelevent. Any reference to that effect will be ignored.You're request is, in my opinion, more personal than practical. But I woul d not be doing my job if I did not give you the opportunity to proove your point.So, compose a documnet (not a post) that in your mind proves that Jonas has been offensive and rude. We will review it and let you know our position.

[Chocolate570]

Please consider this post. Thank you.

[Eric]

Skemcin, take my post about Opera into account.He bascally said I was "joking" about having a question and that he wouldn't "humor" me.I found that to be rude, arrogant and pompous of him.It wasn't just about not being helpful, it was about being rude and his post was uncalled for.And he has yet to say he was sorry.

[Skemcin]

I am a very rational person. I understand that there are two sides to every story. I also understand that typing words on a screen and not having the tone of voice and facial expression along side can very easily allow statements to be misinterpreted. I also understand that it makes it just as easy for someone to have said one thing, meant it one way, and then when confronted on it, spin it another. Now, I am by no means suggesting that you or anyone else has done this - I'm simply recognizing that it is possible and pointing out that I have the ability to identify it.Having said all that, I have asked you in a very respectable way to formally compose your "argument" into a statement with evidence that supports it (in a document, not a post). Then submit it for review. You have taken a VERY bold step by requesting that a members moderator status be revoked. If you cannot follow the established protocol, then we are left with no choice but to dismiss the accusation and take no action.I specifically asked you not to post your issue in a topic or reply which you have already failed to comply to. So, unless you follow the instructions provided to you then, as I said, there will be no merit for action.Can you please, do asa you are asked and get on with any other helpful contribution to the community as you would if this was not happening. Once you submit your formal accusation, a decision will be made as soon as all the moderators and admins have reviewed it. There is no need to post a reply, just do as you are asked.Thanks

[Jonas]

http://w3schools.invisionzone.com/index.php?showtopic=2147Eric, you took offence with my post, and I am sorry about that, but it was not at all intended to be rude. It did seem a bit like you were testing me you know, going like:

Jonas should know this, he loves Opera :)Come'on Jonas, I know you can do it

The reason for my lack of apology or otherwise action so far is I felt it was a bit unprofessional handling my own complaint, but I've seen and read all posts concerning this subject. I'm sorry you feel that way about me, but we can't always see eye to eye on everything, and misunderstandings are bound to occur on the internet when you don't have tone to help you figure out sarcasm, only black text on a bland background and your own choice of interpretation.

Jonas has been nothing but rude and unhelpful since the day I joined.

And I'll want an apology for that, because that is simply not true, and I found that VERY insulting.

[scott100]

I want to file a complant against Jonas.Jonas has been nothing but rude and unhelpful since the day I joined.Rather than actually helping, he'll make off-the-wall comments and do everything possible to be the most unhelpful ever.I think Jonas should be stripped from his rank of "Moderator".

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Like most i have sat back and watched this boil over and think it's only fair to voice my opinion.I think that Jonas is helpful and some of his comments have been taken the wrong way. On the other hand i think that it's you eric who has been rude on many occasions on this forum. You seem to have a real attitude problem and a know it all approachA handful of recent postschildish behaviourhttp://w3schools.invisionzone.com/index.ph...wtopic=1979&hl=shouting at and disrespecting othershttp://w3schools.invisionzone.com/index.ph...opic=1957&st=15Blatantly trying to test a moderator and mock himhttp://w3schools.invisionzone.com/index.php?showtopic=2147In my opinion Jonas has no need to apologise to anyone and eric has a real cheek considering the way he has spoken to others here.

[Eric]

scott100, I'm not a moderator.Moderators are representatives of the company they moderate for.If a moderator is rude, it makes the whole company look bad.That's all I'm going to comment on though, I already sent Skemcin a formal document wth my complaint so I have nothing more to say here.

[Jonas]

Actually Eric, although you're not a moderator, that still doesn't mean you can go around doing/saying whatever you want and escape criticism for it. I don't know if you've ever been a mod on a forum like this or not, but our main job is to keep this forum in check, lock redundant threads, redirect where necessary. We are not "representatives" of Refsnes Data or w3schools.com. Whenever someone ask us questions concerning the main website, all we can give is our opinion, and we have to check with kaijim before saying something that can be interpreted as w3schools official opinion. We are posters just like you that have been trusted by kaijim to moderate this forum, and none of us have ever done anything else. When I post in a thread, helping or otherwise, I'm not moderating, and it has nothing to do with my abilities to moderate, I'm a poster too. I can't just be a mod, that is not possible for anyone to continually do, unless they get paid for it. Cause believe it or not, we are volunteers. We voluntarily take upon ourselves all the crap that comes with being in an authority position, because we want to give something back to w3schools.com who do what they do without demanding money for it. I've already tried breaking your attitude a bit, for example here:http://w3schools.invisionzone.com/index.ph...findpost&p=9302You have, like scott100 already said, a know it all approach to things. I tried piping you down by telling you to show an example where you do it better. You not only say you have made a better site without showing it, but you also imply that the rest of us are braggers advertising our work.http://w3schools.invisionzone.com/index.ph...65533;entry9099Another example where your arrogance gets the best of you, suggesting that the webmasters of w3schools.com don't know how to make javascript open a document in a new window.http://w3schools.invisionzone.com/index.ph...findpost&p=7977That is the first thread where you put yourself on my radar. You first posted an opinion which someone reacted negatively to (meaning they took offense). You then reacted even worse by overreacting, saying aspnetguy was uptight and/or obtuse, and that he insulted your intelligence in some way.After that wonderful post of yours, I PM'ed you giving you a warning. I don't know if you still have that PM, or if you deleted it and therefore don't remember its content or even remember receiving it, but I've got a copy I can send you again if I need to refresh your mind. You apologised over PM, and I suggested you apologise in that thread where you insulted people/overreacted. Here's what you did:http://w3schools.invisionzone.com/index.ph...findpost&p=8074You made a "sort of" apology, not really admitting you were wrong or sorry in any way, and still defending your claim with claws and teeth. I decided to show my good will and let that stand as an apology. It seems I was wrong to do that. Afterwards you had a PM round with Skemcin and following that made a proper apology. Since that, you've had some smaller/larger outbursts like the one from scott100's link, where you call me a noob and say you have lost all respect for me. It seems you indeed have. It's just at the end of the post where you make a feeble attempt to make us disregard your post as being meant seriously.And now you just ignored my post and replied only to scott100's, not mine, where I apologised. I'm still waiting for my apology, cause saying I've been nothing but unhelpful was not in any way warranted and just plain rude. I've had a lot of patience with you, but it's running dry.

[aspnetguy]

I would just like to say that it only seems far that if Eric's accusation was taken into consideration by the mods then there should be a review of his conduct...which is very well documented by Jonas above, and proper action should be taken with him as well.

[Jonas]

And aspnetguy, I'm sorry if you felt thishttp://w3schools.invisionzone.com/index.ph...findpost&p=9662was a pissing match and created a bad mood on the forums, but for my part it served a purpose.As for reviewing Eric's conduct, it will be gotten to in time, don't you worry. But first I'm gonna want some sort of reply from Eric concerning what I've put forth. Thanks for voicing your opinion though, it is valued.

[Eric]

Jonas, I'm sorry if it seemed like I was giving you a hard time in the past.aspnetguy, yeah I overreact sometimes but I help a lot too whenever possible.Everyone else, I probably have more experience with web design than Jonas, so if I say something it is usually out of experience.I've always tried to help on these forums, and yes I have a somewhat short fuse at times.I moderate and administer at several messageboards. Some free, some paid.Why would I want to help out here for free when I can get paid somewhere else? The reason is because I LIKE helping others. It makes me feel good to know I can help someone with their problem.Jonas, at times you seem like an ok guy, other times you make annoying comments.How about we compromise? You lay off the dumb jokes and annoying comments, and I'll not overreact as much.Whenever I make a topic, it is always serious. I never make a "joke topic" and that's what you implied I did. So I took offense to that.

[aspnetguy]

I never said you weren't helpful...you do know a lot...you just get carried away sometimes.Hopefully this matter can be forgotten and we can get back to what this forum is here for...

[Jonas]

Everyone else, I probably have more experience with web design than Jonas, so if I say something it is usually out of experience.

I moderate and administer at several messageboards. Some free, some paid.

You know, you probably do have more experience than me. In fact, I am absolutely certain you do. But that's beside the point here. I saw this excellent article on the internet once:http://www.smartania.com/arguments.htmlWhether or not you have read this article, what you're doing relates to these things (do a Ctrl+F):

Strategy #2: "I Am Almost Certainly Smarter/Older Than You"Strategy #10: Point? What point?

And:

"I'm a certified expert in [iNSERT TOPIC]. Now watch me flaunt my knowledge in every post I make so I can make you feel small and insignificant."

Though it doesn't work, you try, whether you're aware of doing it or not, to throw off my point with your experience with this and that. While humoring me with an apology, you right after go on trying to declare to everyone else your superiority over me with those comments I quoted you on, which just proves my point. Did you get my point?While you do help a lot, you also have a side-tendency of throwing threads off-topic, hijacking threads if you will. It's good that you want to help, and I'm sure you have a lot to contribute, but you also need to listen sometimes. You are not always right, and that might hurt a bit to realise, but the sooner the better.As far as my "annoying comments" go, I've already explained that if you read my previous long post. If you don't overreact and don't hijack topics, I won't have to go on with what you see as annoying comments.An example of a topic where Skemcin perceived you as being less than serious is this one:http://w3schools.invisionzone.com/index.php?showtopic=1851You continually ask questions, pushing us with very spesific examples, when we've already given a general defination on advertising and telling you to use your good judgement.

[boen_robot]

In order to understand some of Jonas' comment a person needs to be a bit... free . I think Eric is sometimes waay too sencetive, but that isn't a bad thing either .As mentioned above, the moderators are here vaulenteerly. I sure know that scince I've been here scince they weren't moderators yet .By the way, the article above is really cool. Eric, here's a hint on how to respond to Jonas' question "Did you get my point?". Whatever you say, don't say "Point? What point?" .Please note(ALL OF YOU!!!): Emoticons are put here with a purpose. Their purpose is to express emotions. You should expect someone being angry when there's a " ", and you should expect someone joking when there's a " ". Sarcasm (which Jonas often uses, and unfortunately is misunderstud by Eric) is normally marked with different smiled emoticons like " " and sometimes " " (it all depends on the situation).Learn to read (Eric)/write (Jonas) the emoticons as they are an important addition in every community.

[Eric]

He used this emoticon :)To me, that emoticon means you're pissedoff about something

[Skemcin]

OK - I AM DONE WITH THIS - THIS HAS GONE ON FAR TO LONG AND THE LAST COMMENTS ONLY KEEPS THE WOUND OPEN.EVERYONE DROP IT!!IF ANY OTHER WORD IS TO BE SAID ON THIS ISSUE IT WILL BE DONE TO WHOMEVER ANY ONE HAS ISSUE WITH VIA PRIVATE MESSAGE.IF YOU DO NOT LIKE MY ALL CAPS AND THINK I AM BEING TO ASSERTIVE, PM ME - BUT DON'T EXPECT A RESPONSE. EVERYONE HAS HAD PLENTY OF OPPORTUNITY TO SAY THEIR PEACE.IF ANYONE CANNOT GET OVER THIS ISSUE AND FEELS THEY HAVE TO STILL GET THE LAST WORD IN - IT WILL RESULT IN A WARNING AND 1 DAY POSTING SUSPENSION.AND THAT IS THE LAST WORD!