Internet Explorer 8 Beta 1

[Guest FirefoxRocks]

For those of you waiting (probably not very many), here is Internet Explorer 8 Beta: http://msdn2.microsoft.com/en-us/ie/default.aspxIf that link doesn't work, try this: http://www.microsoft.com/windows/products/...e8/default.mspxWiki:Internet Explorer 8 claims to have a balance between interoperability and compatibility (really?), built in tools for first-time and experienced developers to get pages right (like what?) and the capability to provide "innovative" experiences. WebSlices are subscribed portions of sites to bring content to users (yeah, ever heard of RSS?).Oh, and on the next tab thingy, here are some answers:

Choice of layout engineInternet Explorer 8 Beta 1 will ship in standards mode by default. However, three different rendering modes that may be set using the X-UA-Compatible header: * Quirks mode which supports Internet Explorer 5 and legacy browsers * Strict mode which supports Internet Explorer 7 and is accessed through the emulate Internet Explorer 7 button * Internet Explorer 8 standards mode

Is it really necessary to support Internet Explorer 5 and legacy browsers any more?

Cascading style sheets 2.1 complianceThe Internet Explorer 8 layout engine is built to be cascading style sheets 2.1 compliant, enabling web developers and designers to write their pages once and have them render properly across all cascading style sheets 2.1 compatible browsers. However, Microsoft is not finished—hence, Microsoft is seeking feedback from developers working with Internet Explorer 8 Developer Beta 1.

Well looking at this chart: http://www.webdevout.net/browser-support-css, you're a bit farther from full CSS 2.1 support compared to other popular browsers.

HTML improvementsMany cross-browser inconsistencies have been fixed in Internet Explorer 8 Beta 1, including: * Separate URL handing for attributes * The get/set/remove attribute implementations are now compatible with those of other browsers * Default attributes for HTML are supported so that they always exist on elements whether specified in the markup or not

What does this mean?

Improved namespace supportInternet Explorer 8 simplifies the use of standards-compliant XML-based webpages that support namespace features like scalable vector graphics, XML user interface language, mathematical markup language, and others.

MathML and SVG support! Finally! Can someone explain XUL though? Doesn't only Gecko-based browsers support it? Is it a standard?

Platform performance improvementsInternet Explorer 8 Beta 1 improves performance in many Internet Explorer subsystems, such as the HTML parser, cascading style sheets rule processing, markup tree manipulation, the JScript parser, garbage collector runtime, and memory management. More performance work is planned for later beta releases.

One HUGE question here is do you support XHTML pages sent as application/xhtml+xml?? This is a MAJOR issue here. Guess I'll have to test that for myself.

Developer toolsMicrosoft has heard your feedback that Internet Explorer needs its own built-in Developer Tools, so the new Developer Toolbar enables developers to quickly debug HTML, cascading style sheets, and JavaScript in a visual development environment that is included with the web browser. Developers can quickly identify and resolve issues because of the deep insight the tool provides into the Document Object Model. The Developer Toolbar also allows the layout to be changed on the fly so that each rendering scenario can be tested thoroughly.

So what if the user isn't a developer? Is it absolutely necessary for it to be included?I'm waiting to see more user response before downloading it to on my computer. I hate not being able to install multiple versions of Internet Explorer on Windows XP.

[justsomeguy]

Is it really necessary to support Internet Explorer 5 and legacy browsers any more?

I believe they consider IE6 a legacy browser.

So what if the user isn't a developer? Is it absolutely necessary for it to be included?

It's disabled by default. Most people here will be happy to learn that the developer tools in IE8 are much like Firebug. They seem a little more clumsy or clunky (at least with the Beta), but they provide much of the same functionality (albeit at the expense of performance - for now).There are a also a few posts about IE8 in the browser discussion thread.

[boen_robot]

Is it really necessary to support Internet Explorer 5 and legacy browsers any more?

Do you really care? I sure don't. I mean, we're talking about documents without a DTD. They're never going to be valid, and so no real developer will be using them. They're only there for intranet's sake and abandonware's sake. Why do you care?

Well looking at this chart: http://www.webdevout.net/browser-support-css, you're a bit farther from full CSS 2.1 support compared to other popular browsers.

Where on this chart do you see IE8? I sure don't see it anywhere, so how can you claim that they are far away? Have you tried IE8 and the ACID2 test yet? I know I did, and I remember my jaw dropping the first time I really saw it with my own eyes.

What does this mean?

JavaScript fixes.

MathML and SVG support! Finally! Can someone explain XUL though? Doesn't only Gecko-based browsers support it? Is it a standard?

XUL is not a standard. It's a Mozilla only language, created by Mozilla for Mozilla products.I'm afraid you've misinterpreted the MathML and SVG support thing. They support namespaces, and in doing so, they allow third parties to create plugins that will work on elements in a particular namespace. This allows potential support for SVG, MathML, and other languages by third parties. There's no native support for any of them in IE8.

One HUGE question here is do you support XHTML pages sent as application/xhtml+xml?? This is a MAJOR issue here. Guess I'll have to test that for myself.

As far as my tests go - no, which raises a bigger question from me... how on earth are namespaces going to be implemented if XHTML is not supported? Implemented under XHTML served as text/html? Feels wrong, wouldn't you say?

So what if the user isn't a developer? Is it absolutely necessary for it to be included?

They are well hidden so that only a true developer can find them. If you're not a developer, they won't be bothering you, but if you are, you can easily find them.

(yeah, ever heard of RSS?).

I thought that the first time I heared it, but after reading up on the IE blog and seeing a few videos, I understand it's quite different than that. An RSS feed updates with new news items. A webSlice updates with any part of an existing content. The eBay auction they gave is a great example. With RSS, you'd have to go to the RSS reader, update, and find a new news item to read, at which point you'll see all the old information + the new one. Seems clumsy and not intuitive. And going back to the page and checking it up manually - not much 21 century. webSlices update when the portion of the web page has updated, and present the user with an immediate view of the current page, bolding what has changed.

[aspnetguy]

If anyone is interested John Resig (creater of jQuery) has posted a nice outline of the JavaScript improvements in IE8http://ejohn.org/blog/javascript-in-internet-explorer-8/

[Guest FirefoxRocks]

So still no MathML or SVG support here. I feel that SVG is slightly more important than MathML because it is used more often now, by Wikimedia Commons and such.Well standards mode is already breaking popular web sites, including Facebook, Yahoo!, YouTube, phpBB3 forums and many sites that use heavy tables in their layout. WebSlices crash the browser everytime I try to access it, haven't tried "activities" yet. It breaks a few of my sites even though they are valid XHTML 1.0 Strict, why is that?The developer tool isn't particularly helpful, especially in that separate window. With the IE7 developer toolbar, it is opened as a panel at the bottom but this new window is just awful!

[justsomeguy]

It breaks a few of my sites even though they are valid XHTML 1.0 Strict, why is that?

Are you using any IE-only CSS or Javascript hacks? If so, you might not need them with IE8.Also, keep in mind we're dealing with a beta version here.