tuulen

I have no personal experience with PayPal, but I have heard two things;1) At least in the U.S.A., once a person has signed up with PayPal, PayPal then somehow gains a lot of legal control over one's bank accounts, which, perhaps in a worst case, could possibly have one's assets "frozen", until PayPal determines otherwise.2) Once a person has signed up with PayPal, it may then not be possible to sign out of PayPal, or, in other words, once in, in for good.Anyway, such are the rumors I have heard.

I have both a pile of good books and Internet contacts. Each has its place, and I would be in a bind without the both of them. Probably the hardest part is in keeping one's imagination and creativity going strong while grinding through endless mountains of mind numbing technical material. It's something of a balancing act.Because my background is mechanical engineering, however, I have already learned how to do such a balancing act, yet would otherwise side with those who recommend a formal education, to anybody not having already done so.

... I'm not going to spend my time helping Microsoft make their bad products look good...

Every now and then I hear something which seems really worthwhile to remember, and my thanks to you.:-D

If you've had enoguh experience with IE6, you would certanly appreciate all the fixes it has made. Look at the explorer bugs on positioniseverything.net. All bugs you see there, except the escaping floats bug have been fixed in IE7. IE still has a lot of rendering bugs, but at least the all famous ones were fixed.If people were using conditional comments before, the troubles now would've been less.

As a newbie to Web design, I really have no experience with IE6, in that regard. My interest in Web design did not begin until after my purchase of an IE7 equipped PC. So, I suppose my comments about IE7 were more in regard to overall utility, of IE7 vs. IE6, including such as E-mail, where I have found some major faults with IE7. Actually, the IE7 browser seems to work fairly well, but my experience with MSN E-mail has been very bad. Moreover, the E-mail system appears to have caused OS troubles, which, in turn, appear to have migrated to other system functions. Altogether, I am experiencing a lot of unreliability, as troubles which I did not have with IE6. Another thing I have discovered is that, despite regular system maintenance on my part (back up, de-frag, and the anti-spyware and virus-scans, etc.), the troubles I have had, and am having, do not appear to have any remedy. Worse, after searching the Web for other opinions, it seems that I am not alone in having such irregular troubles. And, that is why I am about to say goodbye to Microsoft, and hello to Mac, just for Internet reliability. Of course, I will keep this Microsoft based PC, just for Web design purposes, because Microsoft indeed has the largest share of the user market, and I would be a fool to ignore that.:-)

In a way IE7 just makes things worse. Since its release I have had to use 3 stylesheets per page (normal browsers, IE6 and older, and IE7)It has made some improvements but still has many flaws making it just another variation that you have to code for.

My old Microsoft based PC, an HP pavilion XT983, is now more than five years old. It came with IE6, and, although I am just getting started with Web design, even I can tell that the new IE7 is simply bug nuts crazy, like nothing I could explain.Some day, eventually, maybe I will have learned enough to be able to explain this experience in "professional" language, but for now all I can say is that IE7 is somewhere between weird and flat out BAD, not good.It is nothing less than irresponsible for Microsoft to have passed such a thing onto the public. I am going to Mac OS X.;-)

Yes. And look at that, only 3 more years until 2010. I'm sorry Dave, I can't let you do that.

Hello, HAL?(hehe,...2001, a space odyssey!)Hello, Dave!Honestly, this IE7 is weird.;-)

You can install multiple versions of IE. You can download all the 32-bit versions of IE from here:http://browsers.evolt.org/?ie/32bitYou can also download an installer for several different versions of IE here:http://tredosoft.com/Multiple_IEThat would probably be a better way to go. Other then that, you can get Firefox from getfirefox.com (imagine that), and you can download Opera from opera.com. If you want to see how your page will look on the Mac OSX Safari browser, you can use this site:http://www.browsrcamp.com/

In plain language, you have just handed me some solid gold. However, I have already downloaded Firefox into this IE7/Microsoft PC, and, unfortunately, the results were not good.There is something about this IE7 which simply resists the various improvements which I have so far tried.It looks as though IE7 was designed to NOT be tampered with.I do thank you, however, and I will return to your post, soon, probably to put that gold into a new Mac PC.Edit: Let me add, that the IE7 I am using is an October 2006 release, and maybe not the latest.:-)

There's no reason you would need more then one computer to run different browsers. If you want, you can install every version of IE on one computer and see how your website looks in IE2.0. I don't worry about a lot of the older versions, the oldest thing I worry about now is IE6. There aren't enough people using IE5.5 or earlier for me to justify doing a lot of testing there, and I don't think there are a lot of drastic changes between that and IE6 anyway. I keep IE6 and recent versions of Firefox and Opera installed on the computer I am developing everything on. I develop everything in Opera, and I have buttons on the Opera toolbar to launch the page I'm looking at in either IE or Firefox, and also validate the page, so it makes checking pages pretty quick and easy. It's been my experience that if things work correctly in IE6, Firefox, and Opera, then they will look substantially similar in everything else like Safari or IE7, although within the next several months I'm sure I'll have to add IE7 to my list of things to check.

As a newbie, I am glad to hear that I do not need more than one PC!!However, the truth be told, I have already tried to install, for instance, IE6 on my new PC which came with IE7 installed, and, long story short, apparently IE7 does not allow any installation of IE6. So, I am ready to believe that at least one more PC could be required, one with IE6. Like you, however, I am not concerned about, say, Windows 95, or anything so old as that. After all, the "market" is where the money is, and the real money is not using antique equipment. That, however, is not to say that everybody is using a Microsoft product. Indeed, there are a number of other browsers currently in use. Moreover, I am thinking of switching over to Mac OS X, while keeping my new Microsoft based PC. That, of course, would also give me access to Firefox. So, between just IE7 and Firefox, I should be off to a strong start.Let me add, that although my background is mechanical engineering, I am very much a NEWBIE when it comes to Web design, and I readily admit that there is much more for me to learn!!:-D

Actually, you as a developer are required to have such a browser "farm", because you need to notice the rise of such issues and verify that workaround actually work.That last statement didn't made much sence to me, though I guess it doesn't matter much. I mean, there are W3 standarts, and they are created by W3C, but are adopted by the standart's implementors (i.e. browser vendors), which are not W3C themselves, but only W3C members.

When I opened this thread, I was wondering about the possible need to have a bench including a number of different browsers, as a browser farm, just to verify that a Web design could be "universally" published. Of course, there do seem to be some limits, that after enough time has passed certain older browsers could for practical purposes be considered obsolete. And, with the notable exception of Microsoft products, there does seem to be some trend toward a browser standard, perhaps more so than, say, several years ago. However, let me thank you for confirming that which I was wondering about. OK, so maybe I could begin to look around for some older, and some newer, PCs. If that is what it takes, then that is what I need to do.By "standard", I was thinking about a universal standard, as one used by all PC manufacturers, so that one Web design language could work on all browsers. However, perhaps that could put certain manufacturers who use a "proprietary" language (Microsoft in particular) out of business. Anyway, the W3C standard seems like a good place to start. I thank you, boen_robot. :-D

My thanks to each and to all of you who have responded to my question. Apparently it is not necessary to have a whole bench full of browsers, as a browser "farm", and I am now aware that "workarounds" exist to help solve certain browser incompatibilities.Let me add a vote, that a common WWW standard be adopted, perhaps as W3C.Again, I thank you.:-D

Later last year, my old PC was all of five years old, had become corrupted, and the time had come to replace it. So, I went to my local PC dealer, and purchased the latest Microsoft PC, which, as of October 2006, included the latest, Internet Explorer 7 browser. Thank goodness, there is a thread here at W3 Schools, to express my absolute horror at the latest Microsoft IE7 product!!It is bad enough to use Outlook Express, as E-mail, but just wait until you try MSN, or any of the other higher-order, Microsoft E-mail products!! Indeed, within a matter of days, my brand new PC went E-nuts, completely bonkers, which called for a brand new hard drive!!I thank you for allowing this rant to me, and I wait for a time when Microsoft either vanishes, or goes open source!!:-)

Phew, for a moment there I was thinking you're referring to Bulgaria (country code: BG). Continue your hatred for IE in the browser discussion topic.

I thank you, Sir.In no way did I intend to implicate the excellent nation of Bulgaria, please, and, from this moment forward, I will direct any further Microsoft commentary to the particular browser discussion you mentioned.With all due respect, please, I thank you.;-)

Just for fun, let us know where you (generally) live.Got here:http://www.frappr.com/w3schoolsEnjoy!

Hei hei,Terve!Olen Enontekiöstä!http://www.enontekio.fi/:-D

... Even Bill Gates could probably learn a thing or two (Like how to make IE better. )

This may not be politically correct, but, the all too real PC troubles I, for one, have had with Micro$oft have been nothing less than horrible, frankly. (In plain language: IE7 appears to be in another world, but which one?)Moreover, and not to degenerate this thread, but, if BG did learn a thing or two, then could that mean that W3C standards could be absolute, as without any other standard? (OH, happy day!!)Please, BG, learn a thing or two!!;-)

Ah, I get it now. It seems every time I log on here I learn something new from you.

Well, the truth be told, I have yet to not learn something new, EVERY time I get here!!Signed, Happy Camper!!;-)

...There are simple workarounds for most issues and the better you understand where in the code's construction is the problem, the easier you'll find the solution. And in order to understand what causes the problem, you need to understand the language's workflow, which in turn requires understanding of the terms. And I mean that in general, not only in CSS.

My thanks to you, boen_robot, and if there could be a single reason as to why I signed on to this board, it would have everything to do with what you just said!! Frankly, there are so many unspoken "tricks" to Web design, and where other than here to learn of them?Again, many thanks!!:-D

You should read the HTML and CSS tutorials and try out what they have in various browsers. At that point, terms you see in atricles like "property", "unit", "selector" and the such is going to get clear to you and you'll understand what an "incompatability" truly refers to...

I thank you, boen_robot.Although I do try to use correct terms or language, perhaps I am not correct in my use of "compatibility". For instance, on another thread, a Web designer once did well at a particular Web page design, until a friend then mentioned that the same page did not look so good, while the friend was using a different make of Web browser, as one of those Microsoft vs. Apple browser differences. Also, on yet another thread, there was a discussion as to how to "center" some text on a monitor screen, that one browser required certain instructions, while another browser required somewhat different instructions. Eventually, at least three different sets of browser instructions were discussed, just to "center" the same piece of text. So, when I refer to "compatibility", I am thinking of the apparently numerous differences between all of the browsers in current use, older and new.The W3 Schools HTML , XHTML, and CSS tutorials are already becoming old friends!! Yet, there is so much more to learn.Again, thanks.

CSS has actually been around since 1996 I believe. As far as I know most (If not all) of that major browsers support CSS. But some users do have the ability to turn off support for CSS, which can really mess up your pages. I read an interesting article yesterday about the em unit in CSS (I had not idea how to use it) and it got into the fact that some browsers don't use CSS, like browsers that use brail to display certain things, or browsers that say things aloud to the user. So the article said that you should try to make your documents work even without the use of CSS, which would be quite a challenge these days since so many developers rely on CSS. There's also the possibility that the style sheet doesn't load properly, which would mess up the page.Anyway, just thought I'd tell you incase you weren't aware, for some reason IE doesn't support transparent PNG images even though I believe most other browsers do. So there are two ways to get around this that I know of. Either use GIF (which doesn't have much colour support, so you will loose quality), or I believe there is some type of code. I can look for a code like that if you wish.

I thank you, Kevin M. Much of what you said reflects the confusion I have had in regard to certain compatibility issues. It seems that what works for one might not work for another, and I was beginning to think that I would need to collect my own browser "farm", just to check for "universal" compatibility.Not that I am complaining, as having such a variety of potential challenges just makes life that much more interesting. Let me add, that as a newbie, I am still in the neophyte stage, where I am just getting a grip on the scheme of things, so I am perhaps prone to asking "dumb" questions, while using incorrect terms or language, although I am sincere.:-)

I thank you, Little Goat, and boen_robot.I now realise, however, that in my use of the term graphic artist, I had intended to speak of everything graphic, that is, anything to appear on a monitor screen, including Web pages, and all. I did not realise that the term graphic could be limited to only certain images.What brought about my question, moreover, were some discussions I had seen on other threads, where, for instance, getting some text to be centered on the monitor screen of one make of browser could be a somewhat different proceedure than getting that same text centered on the screen of another make of browser. So, it had me thinking that it just might be useful to have something of a collection of various browsers, of different makes, some older and some new, just to check for "universal" compatibility.I am sorry if I have misused the term graphic.Yes, I gather that CSS is relatively new, in commercial terms, and that perhaps not all manufacturers have adopted it, at least not yet.I thank you.

As a Newbie, let me ask the sort of question perhaps only a newbie could ask, please.For instance, considering all of the various browsers in current use, just how could an Internet graphics artist know just what code(s) to use, in order to be "universally" published? I am aware that some code is W3C standard, but I am also aware that not all browsers are W3C compliant.So, as I wonder, does a graphics artist need to have a number of different browsers, in order to check the quality of their work?Thanks!!

"Yeah... I used to run an old InvisionFree forum that did wierd things to me.... Welcome to the W3Schools Forums. "WHEW!! Glad to know that I am not alone, and thank you.Log Out, for me, and back to W3 Schools...

???Somehow this, the above, appears under Forum Topics, but it should not.Actually, I had placed my second post on page 15 of the Introduce Yourself thread of the Important Topics section, yet for some reason not known to me it now appears here, in the Forum Topics section. Hmmm...???Perhaps we newbies could be astonished at the slightest of events.Anyway, HELLO!!

I tried, honestly. As the complete newbie, and looking for the right place to put my very first post, I looked at all of the various forums, and then made sure to read all of Announcements in the General forum, but then placed my first post in the Forum Topics section of the General forum, and somehow managed to gloss over this, the Important Topics section. OOPS!!Anyway, HELLO, to everybody!!:-D

As a newbie, and in the spirit of an Internet tradition, this is my first post on this board, and, although I have been studying at W3 Schools for the past couple of months, I thought it was about time to introduce myself, and to say a big hello, to everybody.Let me add, that because I am so new to Internet graphics, and because there is so much more for me to learn, that it may yet be some while before I can ask any intelligent questions, let alone participate at anywhere near the level of ability as I have seen here. So, that said, back I go to my studies, and I look forward to the future.I thank you.:-D