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AmyR2

I'm Confused About It

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They might be a professional designer, but as far as web development goes they still have a lot to learn.Though the largest part of the errors are there because they mistyped the Document Type Declaration, they forgot a single 'g' and the whole document has become invalid. This is because the Document Type Declaration tells the renderer what language the document is written in.You don't need to worry abut efficiency and standards, yourself. But you at least must open your mind and understand that not all "professional" developers actually know what they're doing. Here on W3Schools forums you can find a lot of the best web developers.Here are a few real professionals, don't just look at the site, read the content. They are highly intelligent people.http://hsivonen.iki.fi/http://www.quirksmode.org/http://www.alistapart.com/

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But they didn't type the doctype thing, the software/program they use automatically does it. So it's a problem with the software that did it. Nothing to do about that. EN is an abbreviation for English, I see the same thing as typed on here in the forums here. I don't see what the difference is. When I hit the view source it has the exact same thing it says to type when you look at the tutorials. <!DOCTYPE html PUBLIC "-//w3c//DTD XHTML 1.0 Strict//EN" "http://www.w3.or/TR/xhtmll/DTD/xhtmll-strict.dtd">Yes, I understand that not everyone is as professional as they say they are. I'm seeing that whenever hiring repairmen to fix the problems going on with our computers. Since viruses, spyware, all that stuff can cause all these problems too that are going wrong with the site and the software. It can cause all kinds of problems. So, then that is another reason I try not to judge people due to things like that which can affect what is happening. Plus as we all know, computers are always going to have problems too.

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Can I ask just one more question? I think I may have figured a few other things out. I'm reading things like this- "Many of the original PDAs, such as the Apple Newton and Palm Pilot, featured touchscreen for user interaction, having only a few buttons usually reserved for shortcuts to often used programs. Touch screen PDAs, including Windows Mobile devices, usually have a detachable stylus that can be used on the touch screen. Interaction is then done by tapping the screen to activate buttons or menu choices, and dragging the stylus to, for example, highlight. Text input is usually done in one of four ways:"Now is that what people are talking about when you talk about external links? See, I know the word external means something on the outside. Meaning not in the computer. So, since files I thought were located in folders, which are in the computer. I don't even have a cellphone, mobile phone, laptop, Pda, nothing. I don't have any of those devices.

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A link to an external resource refers to either a Javascript file or a CSS file.You can embed CSS and Javascript right into the code of your page with <style> and <script> elements:

<html><head><style type="text/css">/* Some CSS code here*/  html { font-size: 62.5%; }  html,body {    margin: 0;    padding: 0;    font-family: Verdana, Arial, sans-serif;  }</style><script type="text/javascript">  function sum(x,y) {    return parseInt(x) + parseInt(y);  }</script></head>...

However, it's better to have them outside of the HTML document, in other words: external.You load the files into the HTML document with the <link> and <script> elements

<html><head><link href="style.css" rel="stylesheet" type="text/css"><script type="text/javascript" src="math.js"></script></head>

Edited by Ingolme

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Yes, I understand what a file is. I understand how to link things together. I've made so many sites over the years, so I've had to do it correct in order for my pictures and everything else to show up on the page. The thing is I was just trying to say I know what the words external means something that is outside of something.Our files are stored inside a folders that are inside the computer which is internal. Only other thing, places like Angelfire, Geocities, etc.. you can't put the stuff in a separate file like you say to do. It's all built into the editor things we choose for the fonts, and all the other stuff. All the functions are all built in as it is in the forum here. Plus then the other thing is what someone else told me about how we can't really help any of those errors that we get on validation things "Some of those errors is because Geocities server writes code to your pages which you have no control over."

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Yes, I understand what a file is. I understand how to link things together. I've made so many sites over the years, so I've had to do it correct in order for my pictures and everything else to show up on the page. The thing is I was just trying to say I know what the words external means something that is outside of something.Our files are stored inside a folders that are inside the computer which is internal. Only other thing, places like Angelfire, Geocities, etc.. you can't put the stuff in a separate file like you say to do. It's all built into the editor things we choose for the fonts, and all the other stuff. All the functions are all built in as it is in the forum here. Plus then the other thing is what someone else told me about how we can't really help any of those errors that we get on validation things "Some of those errors is because Geocities server writes code to your pages which you have no control over."
Places like angelfire and geocities are just for the average person to make their own personal home page. It's understandable that those editors don't produce very good code.One who wants to get serious in the web development field will have to leave those things behind, write all the code themselves in a text editor like notepad, and upload it to a proper web host.

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The only thing that doesn't make since to me is why do they even bother to teach classes such as using all those things such as Frontpage, Dreamweaver, and all the other editors out there if that is not what to use to make websites with? Plus how do you know ahead of time that Angelfire, or other things aren't going to work right for the page? Same as like any other products you buy in life. You don't know ahead of time if it's not going to work right until you get it home and then it doesn't work for some reason or another. Which with computers, you can't expect them to work right all the time. They always are going to have problems. Ours seem to always have problems all the time due to so many things- viruses, spyware, etc..It seems the place that is hosting the site for my sister and her husband business is setup exactly like Angelfire, Geocities and any other places. Still doesn't make any since about like the table things. When I go to their site like I mentioned, the lady who they hired to make the site put tables on the site, but it doesn't seem to be affecting the way things look that I can see.I can see the text, pictures, everything just fine. That is what I'm not understanding here. Plus it doesn't seem to be affecting the business in any way either. They are getting lots of jobs from the site being there. Well, I guess about the only other thing that matters is it seems stuff I've put on all my sites seem to be showing up just fine and gives other people things to enjoy and I've been able to help others out too by making my sites. What I mean about helping others out, is one of my pages for all my sites will be just a page that has links to other people's sites. So, then it helps give them free advertising and makes me happy I was able to help them out.

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The only thing that doesn't make since to me is why do they even bother to teach classes such as using all those things such as Frontpage, Dreamweaver, and all the other editors out there if that is not what to use to make websites with?
Because not everyone is able to hand-code a site and as much as we may not like it some people still just want to have / make sites without using / being able to use the proper techniques, and there are many people who take advantage of that.
Plus how do you know ahead of time that Angelfire, or other things aren't going to work right for the page? Same as like any other products you buy in life. You don't know ahead of time if it's not going to work right until you get it home and then it doesn't work for some reason or another. Which with computers, you can't expect them to work right all the time. They always are going to have problems. Ours seem to always have problems all the time due to so many things- viruses, spyware, etc..
That's why you read reviews, ask questions - see what other people have to say! (and this doesn't mean reading the 'testimonials' section of the product in question).
It seems the place that is hosting the site for my sister and her husband business is setup exactly like Angelfire, Geocities and any other places. Still doesn't make any since about like the table things. When I go to their site like I mentioned, the lady who they hired to make the site put tables on the site, but it doesn't seem to be affecting the way things look that I can see.
A site can still look fine, even if it is coded badly. However, the pages will load slower, may look strange in some browsers, be harder for people with visual difficulties to view, and generally just make the experience for the end-user worse.
I can see the text, pictures, everything just fine. That is what I'm not understanding here. Plus it doesn't seem to be affecting the business in any way either. They are getting lots of jobs from the site being there.
http://www.msy.com.au/ is a very successful company here in Australia - what do you think of their website?
Well, I guess about the only other thing that matters is it seems stuff I've put on all my sites seem to be showing up just fine and gives other people things to enjoy and I've been able to help others out too by making my sites. What I mean about helping others out, is one of my pages for all my sites will be just a page that has links to other people's sites. So, then it helps give them free advertising and makes me happy I was able to help them out.
That may be fine, but you just have to keep in mind that there are better ways of making sites than how you do at the moment, and that the techniques that you use now are making the sites slower, less compatible, and less accessible for people with disabilities. Edited by Synook

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I have to say, this has been a very strange thread. It might be a good idea if everyone took a step back and breathed for a while.I think I understand where Ingolme and Synook are coming from.1. They believe that strictly following the standards set up by the W3C leads to the best pages.2. They believe that adhering to the modern philosophy of web design (separating content from presentation) leads to the best pages.3. They believe that web design is a craft, and that even the smallest, least significant task should be handled with precise attention to detail. As our grandparents used to say, "A job worth doing is worth doing well."On the other side, Amy's concerns are familiar to us all. If using tables as a design model yields reasonable results, and the goal is to design a small number of personal pages, where is the harm?It is also true that the sort of code inserted by free websites can be out of specification, and this will spoil validation. The good news is that such insertions are of little consequence.What I do not understand is what Amy wants.If it is to learn how to build the best possible web pages, then Ingolme and Synook are offering excellent advice. People from all over the world, many of them professional designers themselves, come to this board precisely because Ingolme and Synook and a few other regulars have a reputation for solving problems in a timely, elegant manner. We occasionally correct each other on minor details, but we agree well over 99% of the time on the best way to do things. (It is extremely common for two of us to answer a question at the same time, but without each other knowing it, and the answers are virtually identical.) Seems to me that when you have a consensus like that, it's worth paying serious attention to.But sometimes Amy rejects their good advice. Well, that's Amy's choice. But it confuses me, because this is Amy's thread. Sometimes it seems like Amy just wants to argue. I can't tell, of course, what Amy is really thinking. But that's the way it seems. As it stands now, this thread is extremely painful to read, and it is not characteristic of the threads that occupy this forum.Is anything served by continuing? I don't see it. If Amy wants to ask a simple, direct question, then maybe it would be wise to begin a new thread.That's my 2 cents.

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Because not everyone is able to hand-code a site and as much as we may not like it some people still just want to have / make sites without using / being able to use the proper techniques, and there are many people who take advantage of that.That may be fine, but you just have to keep in mind that there are better ways of making sites than how you do at the moment, and that the techniques that you use now are making the sites slower, less compatible, and less accessible for people with disabilities.
Yes, and due to disabilities that I have, and others who have my disabilities can't sit there and type out all those codes, but that doesn't mean we don't understand what they mean. I know you all maybe didn't realize about my disabilities, but just makes me want to kill myself if people think I don't care about the way things are done. I care very much about how my work looks. I like everything to look nice and neat. This just makes me more and more glad that I don't do this for my job if that is what matters is what you use to create things with.

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I know you all maybe didn't realize about my disabilities, but just makes me want to kill myself if people think I don't care about the way things are done. I care very much about how my work looks. I like everything to look nice and neat.
Do not worry; we accept that you do care very much about the visual appearance of your sites, and indeed it is very important to remember that there is a distinction between website design, the visual aspect of the creation of web pages, and website development, the coding aspect. People can be great designers, without being great developers, and there is no need to perform physically detrimental acts over this fact.Peace. Edited by Synook

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Just because someone knows how to do it (like your friends using tables for instance), doesn't mean they know how to do it well/right. You are entitled to get out of web design as much as you want to put into it, however it should be noted that posting in a forum dedicated to the technical side of web design/development will lead to very technical, and "offical" responses, geared towards a standards oriented way of doing things. No one is saying your pages don't generate links to other people, or that other JTT fans wouldn't be thrilled about having a site deidicated to their favorite star, but from a bottom up persepctive, around here, it is not so much the content that people here are focused on as much as they are about the "standards-compliant" way of making it. Although not directly affiliated with the W3C, W3Cschools.com aims to provide a place where the standards approved by the W3C can be fully explored and discussed, for the betterment of web-based development and this forums aims to encourage these kind of discussions. I'm glad you find this hobby to be rewarding for you, but many people on here do take their work (in and out of the industry) seriously, as well as the others who are looking to get into it. I find myself sympathizing with your situation having only come to learn of a whole new way of doing things recently myself, but I completely agree with people like Ingolme and Synook who adhere to the standards-compliant way of doing things as the basis for modern web design, as it truely serves to create a common foundation by which all developers can agree to, so as to minimize problems across browsers, platforms, and whatever little variations pop-up that makes this kind of work as frustrating as it can be rewarding. I know by now going back and re-learning a new method of development may be beyond the scope of your interests, but we go to the lengths we have discussed because we know as human "web-browsers" ourselves, how frustrating it can be visiting websites that look wrong, load-slowly, are bloated, break, or just generally don't work, and we work as developers to make sure that doesn't happen to the people that visit our site. Hope you still have fun with and feel free to ask all the questions you want, but just know that there are currently different generally accepted rules of doing things then when you first learned (as many of us did) but now things have changed to provide for a better way of doing things, and that is where we are/it stands today. Hope to see you along for the ride still! :)

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I just want to say I'm very sorry if I caused any problems or misunderstandings from any of my questions. Yes, I know what you mean about how when we visit sites and then our computer crashes. That happens so much to us. Then of course the other thing that is frustrating is you don't know if that is due to viruses, spyware, etc..Since we know that can cause all those things to happen. That is basically why I don't just assume it's due to a coding error. Like the virus or spyware they may have on their computer and not realize they have it. For years, both on mine and my mom's computer even too keep having so much problems due to viruses and spyware. Haven't been able to find a repairman who is able to fix the problems either. I don't plan to ever have any jobs in my life due to more than 1 chronic illness I'm dealing with is why, and then like I mentioned how the disabilities make it to what all I'm physically able to sit there and type out all that coding that the programs do for us. I know there is so much other stuff I have to type out, the words in the paragraphs, but then I don't have to sit there typing out all the coding too. I enjoy designing/decorating things. That is the other reason, you will notice how I have the background I have on the page and then the pretty colors for the text. The JTT site, is just 1 of my 50+ sites I've created over the years and is my very first one and started making it back in 1995. Some places of course don't even allow any coding. I create quizzes/games on places like funtrivia. I guess about the only other thing, some of the coding out there is intended for devices that I don't even have. Like here is what I'm talking about- "Platforms are frequently mentioned with APIs. A complete suite of APIs constitute another type of platform called software platform. Software Platforms frequently are dependent to operating systems. However, this is not always true. For example, two popular non-OS dependent platforms are Java, as mentioned above, and BREW for mobile phones.""Java programs are a typical example of the latter point. Java source code is "compiled" to an intermediate-language bytecode which is then interpreted by an interpreter, the JVM, which then interfaces that program with the Java software libraries. In phones, PDAs and other wireless mobile devices, these libraries are the Java ME. Some phones, even without a full fledged OS, enable Java programs such as games to operate. Java and the bytecode are said to be platform independent. But this is because Java is the platform as well as a programming language. Software really cannot operate without a platform or be platform independent. The programming language is referred to here, meaning the programmer need not be concerned about the hardware or operating system platform, nor will the language change with a different platform." I don't have anything that is wireless, or mobile phone, cellphones, iphone, laptops, none of those I have. I know some computers even have a tv tuner in them, which mine doesn't. I'm planning on getting one in my next computer I get. The one I have at the moment is just a Dell Desktop Dimension 8200 Windows XP Home Edition.

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Amy,Here's my suggestion:Go to w3schools.com and seek out the tutorials. They are an excellent source of information about the building of websites. They instruct on the best way to build a website. The best way; surely not the only way.Also, check out an application called Notepad++ (click here to go to the download page). It's free.One thing that it does for the sake of not having to type so much is that it will offer, in the way of a dropdown, something you began typing. Like, if you wanted to type in 'background-image', once you typed in 'bac', a dropdown would come up with a variety of options to choose from, including, 'background-image'. Once you choose it by using the up/down keys, simply hit 'Enter' and will fill it in for you automatically. That should save you some time and energy. I use it.Also, once you create something, don't reinvent the wheel by doing it over again. Save your CSS in a separate folder, say, on your desktop. That's one of the best things about CSS: You can use it over and over again, customizing by changing just a few variables.Next, most of the people who post responses to posts are either pros or just very, very good. I know I appreciate them greatly for doing what they do. Otherwise, I'd be scouring other people's code for solutions. That's seldom very fun. At least, not productive. Consider someone explaining how to tune a carburetor to someone who's not exactly sure how they even work...Finally, don't lend feelings to coming back over and over again for advice. Most of my 50+ posts ask questions. And I've gotten good answers, even if they are to pedestrian questions (noob questions). But since, I've learned more and more and am asking harder and harder questions, fulfilling my knowledge of proper web design.Keep going. Learn the best way to do what you want websites to do. Impress the heck out of your friends.A

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Amy,Here's my suggestion:Go to w3schools.com and seek out the tutorials. They are an excellent source of information about the building of websites. They instruct on the best way to build a website. The best way; surely not the only way.Also, check out an application called Notepad++ (click here to go to the download page). It's free.One thing that it does for the sake of not having to type so much is that it will offer, in the way of a dropdown, something you began typing. Like, if you wanted to type in 'background-image', once you typed in 'bac', a dropdown would come up with a variety of options to choose from, including, 'background-image'. Once you choose it by using the up/down keys, simply hit 'Enter' and will fill it in for you automatically. That should save you some time and energy. I use it.Also, once you create something, don't reinvent the wheel by doing it over again. Save your CSS in a separate folder, say, on your desktop. That's one of the best things about CSS: You can use it over and over again, customizing by changing just a few variables.Next, most of the people who post responses to posts are either pros or just very, very good. I know I appreciate them greatly for doing what they do. Otherwise, I'd be scouring other people's code for solutions. That's seldom very fun. At least, not productive. Consider someone explaining how to tune a carburetor to someone who's not exactly sure how they even work...Finally, don't lend feelings to coming back over and over again for advice. Most of my 50+ posts ask questions. And I've gotten good answers, even if they are to pedestrian questions (noob questions). But since, I've learned more and more and am asking harder and harder questions, fulfilling my knowledge of proper web design.Keep going. Learn the best way to do what you want websites to do. Impress the heck out of your friends.A
Thank you for writing back. The thing is that this site doesn't seem to be explaining anything that is new to me. I've already taken classes that we even learned how to create dynamic and static websites. All kinds of things we learned how to do. Yes, the programs I'm using do the same thing as you are mentioning about the background, the drop down thing. Are people thinking I'm just beginning to create websites or something? That is what I feel like people are not understanding I've created over 50 sites already. In the beginning things didn't show up properly or at all, my pictures, etc... If I save the CSS to the Desktop it is on the desktop and not on my website. People are not looking at my desktop. Then if I'm using a different computer, it's not on that computer. See, I switch back and forth using different computers to make my sites with. Sorry, but I can't download Notepad++, my mom doesn't want me to do that. This is her computer.

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This discussion fails to make sense anymore. I concur with DD.

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Admiring the patience shown here.

If I save the CSS to the Desktop it is on the desktop and not on my website. People are not looking at my desktop. Then if I'm using a different computer, it's not on that computer. See, I switch back and forth using different computers to make my sites with.
Use a USB.Maybe read DD's post? Edited by Reiyan

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This discussion fails to make sense anymore. I concur with DD.
I was beginning to think the same thing. I was only replying to the last post trying to clear some of the misunderstandings up that looks like is happening.
Use a USB.
Use it for what? I'm not asking what a USB is used for. I already know what it does. Just don't know why I need one. Oh, also, did you all notice the picture I added to my profile on here? I created that using the computer. This is what I'm talking about all the stuff I already know how to do.

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Use it for what? I'm not asking what a USB is used for. I already know what it does. Just don't know why I need one. Oh, also, did you all notice the picture I added to my profile on here? I created that using the computer. This is what I'm talking about all the stuff I already know how to do.
He's implying that you could store all your website files on one USB storage device, and use that to carry around all your files, from computer to computer.and that picture just looks like a screen shot of some game or something. Edited by thescientist

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He's implying that you could store all your website files on one USB storage device, and use that to carry around all your files, from computer to computer.and that picture just looks like a screen shot of some game or something.
Only if I had a USB, which I don't. I don't have the money for one. I just put the files on discs which are cheaper. Then is easier physically for me to carry around discs. Nope, the picture is not of a game. It is a the movie theater I created using so many different objects dragging and dropping them and positioning them the way I want it in the room.

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