@ shinta, Im a big supporter of function over design i just fear that clients will expect extremely graphic sites (especialy where i live, flash seems to be an extremely desired feature) unfortunately i dont like flash so i figure i could compromise by making graphicaly pleasing sites. I think skemcim solved my problem on this one though @ skemcim, Very nice site (iribbit) your portfolio is impressive. Thanks for the link to free templates, very helpfullThanks for the input