W3S Forum Potential: Wasted.

[Norman]

Always, when I'm surfing this forum's discussions I have to say myself: "Damn, this forum potential is really wasted!". And this is what I think. I really like this forum friendly and -at the same time- serious atmosphere. Here we have a lot of experienced programmers, web designers, webmasters, etc. Why is this forum so *leaved to itself*? We know, admins haven't free time to follow this forum. Ok.. then, why don't gave this forum to a new admin who have time and passion to manage it? For example, I'm not a good programmer, web designer/developer.. but I'm a *good* webmaster. I could pay for a vBulletin copy (I think it's the best software out of here) and then host all this forum's experts. I will manage it and take it more nice and active than this one. I know you should think something like "What the ###### he's saying!?", but you should take in mind that mine is just an example/suggestion. I repeat, just and example/suggestion.Ok, nothing else to say.. maybe one last thing: excuse me for my bad english. I doing my best. Regards,Norman

[Jonas]

Always, when I'm surfing this forum's discussions I have to say myself: "Damn, this forum potential is really wasted!". And this is what I think. I really like this forum friendly and -at the same time- serious atmosphere. Here we have a lot of experienced programmers, web designers, webmasters, etc. Why is this forum so *leaved to itself*? We know, admins haven't free time to follow this forum. Ok.. then, why don't gave this forum to a new admin who have time and passion to manage it? For example, I'm not a good programmer, web designer/developer.. but I'm a *good* webmaster. I could pay for a vBulletin copy (I think it's the best software out of here) and then host all this forum's experts. I will manage it and take it more nice and active than this one. I know you should think something like "What the ###### he's saying!?", but you should take in mind that mine is just an example/suggestion. I repeat, just and example/suggestion.Ok, nothing else to say.. maybe one last thing: excuse me for my bad english. I doing my best. Regards,Norman

I guess the main argument for not giving up control of the forum and giving administrator responsibility to someone else is that with an "outsider" being admin on the official w3schools forum, they don't have any control of what this "representative" (which he/she would ultimately be perceived as) states on behalf of them.I see your points though, about the forum's potential not being fully realized, if you mean its potential as a socializing forum. It may not realize its potential (as inherent in all forums), but it realizes its purpose.

[Skemcin]

In what way(s) is the forum's potential not fully realized?Provide some examples on how it could be better managed or "taken to a better place".I appreciate your post, but it falls short of offering any suggestions (which should be the intent of posts in this area).

[boen_robot]

In what way(s) is the forum's potential not fully realized?Provide some examples on how it could be better managed or "taken to a better place".I appreciate your post, but it falls short of offering any suggestions (which should be the intent of posts in this area).

The suggestions on this forum about the site are rarely (if ever) considered. I'm betting that if the admins were here to reply with a "yes" or "no" to at least the more thoughtful suggestions (you know, like "Add a paragraph about *feature* in the *language* tutorial" or "Add *feature* to the website" type of suggestions), then no one would ever dare to think this.Most of the other things can be done with moderators having access to the admin panel, which as far as I've understood you have already.(this remins me, it is possible to return the "Search" link from outside the "My Assistant" page, so that non registered users could use it?)

[Norman]

I guess the main argument for not giving up control of the forum and giving administrator responsibility to someone else is that with an "outsider" being admin on the official w3schools forum, they don't have any control of what this "representative" (which he/she would ultimately be perceived as) states on behalf of them.

I understand. I don't know if some of yours (the moderators team) could have free time, but, for example (as always), they could give this forum management to one -or more- of yours. And I do not mean the admin acces.. I mean the full control on this board!I think you're trusted persons to their eyes. Isn't?

In what way(s) is the forum's potential not fully realized?Provide some examples on how it could be better managed or "taken to a better place".I appreciate your post, but it falls short of offering any suggestions (which should be the intent of posts in this area).

-Personalize its colours arrcording to the site style;-Add a target system with groups: 'Best Answerer", "Coder of the Month/Year", "HTML/CSS/PHP/MySQL/ASP/(etc) Supporter", "Designer of the Month/Year", "Community Guru", etc. (all these are examples)-Add an Off Topic forum for general discussions. -Make the moderators more visible. Or just put a rule that will force moderators to post moderating message in bold red, for example. -Post a sticky thread in all those dedicated forums with a simple explanation on what is that language, and then with a link to the w3s complete tutorial.-Post a stiky thread in all those dedicated forums with usefull links and resources. -Start a new forum with the goal to promove a sort of sites contest with polls and things like that. -Use vBulletin LOL-Like for the first point, personalize this forum a little bit.. adding a definied set of smilies, default avatars, etc. -Add a Introduction foum where people can introduce theirself, maybe as a subforum to the off topic one. -Add a link to the Guidelines and Netiquette discussion to the navbar (for more visibility).

[justsomeguy]

Many of those suggestions have already been done.The way it feels to me is that this forum is not connected with the w3schools website in any way, none of the admins of that site are represented here (logging in once a month without posting does not count), and none of the moderators here are represented on that site. It just happens to be a web development forum with a link on w3schools.com. Heck, I don't even see the logo in my browser, it's just an empty blue bar. It might as well be a standalone forum. And if the admins are actually losing money on it, what possible argument could they have for continuing it? If they just want it to remain as a resource to their users, it will still do that even if it is under different, active management, they can keep the link to it, and it wouldn't cost them any money.

I guess the main argument for not giving up control of the forum and giving administrator responsibility to someone else is that with an "outsider" being admin on the official w3schools forum, they don't have any control of what this "representative" (which he/she would ultimately be perceived as) states on behalf of them.

They aren't asserting control over that now. I have never (not once) seen any of them step in to censor anything, so either they don't want to censor this place or they think it is being run fine as-is. There's no reason to think that new management would change the way it gets run, it seems like new management would only improve things (as opposed to no management). The mods do a good job, but there's no one here who can fix the errors with this forum that we were talking about in another thread.

[boen_robot]

While I'm not an admin to decide, here's my opinion on those suggestions.-Personalize its colours arrcording to the site style;I think only the backgorund color will be enough of a touch. The rest is usually pointless when a new version of IPB comes around.-Add a target system with groups: 'Best Answerer", "Coder of the Month/Year", "HTML/CSS/PHP/MySQL/ASP/(etc) Supporter", "Designer of the Month/Year", "Community Guru", etc. (all these are examples)Nice, but not really needed.-Add an Off Topic forum for general discussions.That I can agree with. There are already some (actually quite a few) offtopic topics in the "General" forum.-Make the moderators more visible. Or just put a rule that will force moderators to post moderating message in bold red, for example.Wouldn't hurt.-Post a sticky thread in all those dedicated forums with a simple explanation on what is that language, and then with a link to the w3s complete tutorial.That is already done, at least for most languages. Which ones you see that don't have this already (the CGI forum excluded)?-Post a stiky thread in all those dedicated forums with usefull links and resources.Already done for the most popular languages. If you can find resources for the rest, I'm sure the moderators would love it if you create a new topic with such resources so that they can pin it.-Start a new forum with the goal to promove a sort of sites contest with polls and things like that.Critiques could be used for that. Adding another forum just for that seems like an overkill.-Use vBulletin LOLNot going to happen.-Like for the first point, personalize this forum a little bit.. adding a definied set of smilies, default avatars, etc.A default avatar would be a nice touch, but I don't know how migratable smilies are between IPB versions. I wouldn't want to post a :insert-very-cool-smily-here: one day, and see its text the next day when IPB upgrades.-Add a Introduction foum where people can introduce theirself, maybe as a subforum to the off topic one.The general forum has a topic for this. All else is an overkill, and whoever needs more than a topic (hope you don't take that one personally) is just too lazy to read/search anything, and the forum shouldn't care about this type of people.-Add a link to the Guidelines and Netiquette discussion to the navbar (for more visibility).Isn't there one already?

[Jonas]

I understand. I don't know if some of yours (the moderators team) could have free time, but, for example (as always), they could give this forum management to one -or more- of yours. And I do not mean the admin acces.. I mean the full control on this board!I think you're trusted persons to their eyes. Isn't?

. . .-Personalize its colours arrcording to the site style;Impractical, as forum software upgrades typically throws the skin off anyway.-Add a target system with groups: 'Best Answerer", "Coder of the Month/Year", "HTML/CSS/PHP/MySQL/ASP/(etc) Supporter", "Designer of the Month/Year", "Community Guru", etc. (all these are examples)And who would decide? If you mean something based on votes, I don't think there's support for that in the forum software.-Add an Off Topic forum for general discussions. Yeah, that suggestion has been brought up several times.-Make the moderators more visible. Or just put a rule that will force moderators to post moderating message in bold red, for example.Ehm, no, don't think that's necessary. If we post moderating messages (that is warnings), they're typically either written in threads where the offender is likely to return (complex topic, otherwise popular thread), or we give the post warning with a warn raise to go. -Post a sticky thread in all those dedicated forums with a simple explanation on what is that language, and then with a link to the w3s complete tutorial.Almost what kaijim did at the very beginning, except the simple explanation part:VBscript forum for instance... http://w3schools.invisionzone.com/index.php?showforum=28-Post a stiky thread in all those dedicated forums with usefull links and resources.Done in many forums, though not all. Although the policy is if someone is knowledgable in a language and has some useful resources, they're welcome to make threads, and we can sticky them. Examples of stickied resource threads:http://w3schools.invisionzone.com/index.php?showtopic=9752http://w3schools.invisionzone.com/index.php?showtopic=7567http://w3schools.invisionzone.com/index.php?showtopic=9500 -Start a new forum with the goal to promove a sort of sites contest with polls and things like that. Hmm, don't really know what you mean. Either way, I don't think the core of people who visit here regularly is big enough to warrant something like that.-Use vBulletin LOL...-Like for the first point, personalize this forum a little bit.. adding a definied set of smilies, default avatars, etc. I think the set of smilies works well, we've added some, but finding a whole new set of smilies and exchanging them with is a bit of work, and I don't quite see the point. You can upload personal avatars, can't you?-Add a Introduction foum where people can introduce theirself, maybe as a subforum to the off topic one. That is why we have this thread:http://w3schools.invisionzone.com/index.php?showtopic=828And if/until we get an off-topic forum, that will have to do I guess.-Add a link to the Guidelines and Netiquette discussion to the navbar (for more visibility).Done.

[Norman]

While I'm not an admin to decide, here's my opinion on those suggestions.

And here my replies (underline). -Personalize its colours arrcording to the site style; I think only the backgorund color will be enough of a touch. The rest is usually pointless when a new version of IPB comes around. Yup, I remember some time ago I suggested to change just the bg color.. but nothing has happen. Arg! -Add a target system with groups: 'Best Answerer", "Coder of the Month/Year", "HTML/CSS/PHP/MySQL/ASP/(etc) Supporter", "Designer of the Month/Year", "Community Guru", etc. (all these are examples) Nice, but not really needed. I know a lot of things are not foundamental, but.. why not? You know, we are here for discussions, so we could have a standard forum just with tables, no images, a little nick under our posts.. and nothing else! But.. why do this when we can do more? -Add an Off Topic forum for general discussions. That I can agree with. There are already some (actually quite a few) offtopic topics in the "General" forum. I've seen an old discussion where Jonas (if I remember right) said that, after a private debate, the heads decided to not have an off topic discussions forum.. -Make the moderators more visible. Or just put a rule that will force moderators to post moderating message in bold red, for example. Wouldn't hurt. -Post a sticky thread in all those dedicated forums with a simple explanation on what is that language, and then with a link to the w3s complete tutorial. That is already done, at least for most languages. Which ones you see that don't have this already (the CGI forum excluded)? Yes, they are there.. but I think they should be more *completed": adding there a first description like the HTML one (http://www.w3schools.com/html/html_intro.asp), you know, wouldn't be so bad, in my opinion -Start a new forum with the goal to promove a sort of sites contest with polls and things like that. Critiques could be used for that. Adding another forum just for that seems like an overkill. Critiques could be used for that, but isn't organized for that. This is the point. -Use vBulletin LOL Not going to happen. I know. LOL -Like for the first point, personalize this forum a little bit.. adding a definied set of smilies, default avatars, etc. A default avatar would be a nice touch, but I don't know how migratable smilies are between IPB versions. I wouldn't want to post a :insert-very-cool-smily-here: one day, and see its text the next day when IPB upgrades. I think IPB (like the other respectable softwares out of here) use a system that store the inserted smilies and then, also after more than one upgrade, they still rest there. So.. I was suggesting to change the default ones with a new set (using the same code: ": )", "; )", etc). -Add a Introduction foum where people can introduce theirself, maybe as a subforum to the off topic one. The general forum has a topic for this. All else is an overkill, and whoever needs more than a topic (hope you don't take that one personally) is just too lazy to read/search anything, and the forum shouldn't care about this type of people. Lol, nice point of view. -Add a link to the Guidelines and Netiquette discussion to the navbar (for more visibility). Isn't there one already? Ops, excuse me.. I was in this forum (section) when I was posting this topic.. then I haven't seen that. It's only on forumhome, right?

[Norman]

-Personalize its colours arrcording to the site style;Impractical, as forum software upgrades typically throws the skin off anyway.

As said, changing just on colour woudn't be all this work, for example.

-Add a target system with groups: 'Best Answerer", "Coder of the Month/Year", "HTML/CSS/PHP/MySQL/ASP/(etc) Supporter", "Designer of the Month/Year", "Community Guru", etc. (all these are examples)And who would decide? If you mean something based on votes, I don't think there's support for that in the forum software.

I don't know, I was thinking to the SitePoint system. But sincerely, I don't know how it works.

-Add an Off Topic forum for general discussions. Yeah, that suggestion has been brought up several times.

Try asking again to the heads.. I don't know.

-Make the moderators more visible. Or just put a rule that will force moderators to post moderating message in bold red, for example.Ehm, no, don't think that's necessary. If we post moderating messages (that is warnings), they're typically either written in threads where the offender is likely to return (complex topic, otherwise popular thread), or we give the post warning with a warn raise to go.

Ok. Mhh.. changing the moderators nick colour? Mod = nick -> bold red?

-Post a stiky thread in all those dedicated forums with usefull links and resources.Done in many forums, though not all. Although the policy is if someone is knowledgable in a language and has some useful resources, they're welcome to make threads, and we can sticky them. Examples of stickied resource threads:http://w3schools.invisionzone.com/index.php?showtopic=9752http://w3schools.invisionzone.com/index.php?showtopic=7567http://w3schools.invisionzone.com/index.php?showtopic=9500

Ok, excuse me.. I haven't checked very well.

-Start a new forum with the goal to promove a sort of sites contest with polls and things like that. Hmm, don't really know what you mean. Either way, I don't think the core of people who visit here regularly is big enough to warrant something like that.

Just an idea, it could be fun. Check the vBulletin.org forums. They have a Board of the Month regulary contest. Is that foundamental? No, but it's fun and attractive.

-Like for the first point, personalize this forum a little bit.. adding a definied set of smilies, default avatars, etc. I think the set of smilies works well, we've added some, but finding a whole new set of smilies and exchanging them with is a bit of work, and I don't quite see the point. You can upload personal avatars, can't you?

I mean *default avatars*. A list of default avatars an user can choice from. But it isn't important.

-Add a link to the Guidelines and Netiquette discussion to the navbar (for more visibility).Done.

Oh, great!

[Skemcin]

Norman,My replies are in bold red:

-Personalize its colours arrcording to the site style;Impractical, as forum software upgrades typically throws the skin off anyway.

As said, changing just on colour woudn't be all this work, for example. Skins can be problematic when it comes to applying updates. They also tend to give a less professional appeal to the site. In my opinion, if any "skin" were to be built, it would be one of the same color palette as the parent w3schools.com site. When the forum launched, it was discussed and work even commenced but nothing stable was ever completed.

-Add a target system with groups: 'Best Answerer", "Coder of the Month/Year", "HTML/CSS/PHP/MySQL/ASP/(etc) Supporter", "Designer of the Month/Year", "Community Guru", etc. (all these are examples)And who would decide? If you mean something based on votes, I don't think there's support for that in the forum software.

I don't know, I was thinking to the SitePoint system. But sincerely, I don't know how it works. I'm not a fan of turning this site/forum into some social networking watering hole. I would not like to see all the valuable information (questions and solutions) be polluted with all these unsubstantiated bells an whistles. All these things you mention require someone or some panel of people to make these decisions. Who are these folks? How are they selected? What qualifies their selection? What conflicts of interest exist?I just think these become distractions - the web is filled with all sorts of places to make friends and do all that stuff - its becoming harder to find a good, clean forum with a very focused purpose.

-Add an Off Topic forum for general discussions. Yeah, that suggestion has been brought up several times.

Try asking again to the heads.. I don't know. Again, this type of topic category just opens more distracting conversations. The w3schools.com website is very focused and the forum is built to follow suit. I can appreciate why many folks would like to see an Off Topic area - I really do. Sometimes I do think its appropriate, but here, in line with my other point, it will quickly turn into more of a distraction.

-Make the moderators more visible. Or just put a rule that will force moderators to post moderating message in bold red, for example.Ehm, no, don't think that's necessary. If we post moderating messages (that is warnings), they're typically either written in threads where the offender is likely to return (complex topic, otherwise popular thread), or we give the post warning with a warn raise to go.

Ok. Mhh.. changing the moderators nick colour? Mod = nick -> bold red?I'm not sure how a community benefits from having moderating action made more public. We either manage posts and threads (related to location, repetitiveness, etc.) or we correct behavior. The relocation or deleting of threads obviously does not need to be announced or noted - that could to easily be interpreted as the moderators tooting their own horn or giving themselves credit - rather conceded behavior. Corrective behavior should always be on an individual basis unless an example needs to be set - even then, there is much off-line deliberation and action prior to any visible response. I'm not sure I completely understand why corrective messaging needs to be in some other color - just look how disturbing this post already is with its formatting. Any message that might meet that criteria is currently being delivered by private message. Is this suggestion intended to make some of the final general corrective statements of enforced rules more obvious and therefore more clear? If so, then wouldn't it be harder for folks to be expected to understand them as a whole if they are scattered around the entire forum. Isn't this why the Guidelines and Netiquette Post was created?

-Post a stiky thread in all those dedicated forums with usefull links and resources.Done in many forums, though not all. Although the policy is if someone is knowledgable in a language and has some useful resources, they're welcome to make threads, and we can sticky them. Examples of stickied resource threads:http://w3schools.invisionzone.com/index.php?showtopic=9752http://w3schools.invisionzone.com/index.php?showtopic=7567http://w3schools.invisionzone.com/index.php?showtopic=9500

Ok, excuse me.. I haven't checked very well. I think this is managed pretty well.

-Start a new forum with the goal to promove a sort of sites contest with polls and things like that. Hmm, don't really know what you mean. Either way, I don't think the core of people who visit here regularly is big enough to warrant something like that.

Just an idea, it could be fun. Check the vBulletin.org forums. They have a Board of the Month regulary contest. Is that foundamental? No, but it's fun and attractive. I do not see any benefit here as well. The polls and contests you reference all relate directly to the product vBulletin offers. It would make sense that contest be done there since it is a way to informing everyone just how many users have their product and just how versatile the product is - that is at least the goals of these contest. The w3school.com site and its forums are not related to selling anything at all. I cannot think of a poll or contest that would have any real meaningful impact without having some bias to one thing or the other.

-Like for the first point, personalize this forum a little bit.. adding a definied set of smilies, default avatars, etc. I think the set of smilies works well, we've added some, but finding a whole new set of smilies and exchanging them with is a bit of work, and I don't quite see the point. You can upload personal avatars, can't you?

I mean *default avatars*. A list of default avatars an user can choice from. But it isn't important. Last year we added about 20 new smiley faces to the option list. Adding more icons and other things like this just tend to make me feel like we are taking a step backward to the days of animated e-mail envelop icons. Smiley faces with machine guns, smile face pools of vomit, etc. sure are fun, but they end up getting abused, over used, and literally in the way.

-Add a link to the Guidelines and Netiquette discussion to the navbar (for more visibility).Done.

Oh, great!Nice****All in all, I do understand and appreciate your input on this matter. Maybe this forum is more like a library than anything else. But the information found in the site and its forums is very valuable. I'd hate to see it over shadowed by social networking functionality(hype). This is not (until the owners change the direction) a social networking community of web developers. This is a repository and collection of user driven problems and solutions. However, feel free to post more specific, site related, suggestions so they can be evaluated.****Keep in mind that these are solely my perspective on your comments. As always, the moderating team discusses these issues like any other, privately in our mod/admin forum.

[jeffman]

FWIW, I've found all the function here that I need. The colors and smileys don't interest me. Best part: overall general politeness.

[Jonas]

Like skemcin said, there are plenty of off-topic forums you can join for meaningful and pointless discussions all-in-one. Personally, I've been a member here, more spesifically here, since 2001/2002 sometime.

[clonetrooper9494]

If you think that w3schools forum should be changed, make a 'w3schools2' I really think you should do that if you that this and that should be changed...

[Synook]

I really think you should do that if you that this and that should be changed...

What? :)

[Norman]

Skemcin and others: I don't want to change *all* this forum. I would like to advice about possible improvements. You know, this forum potential isn't 'exploited' very well. We could have a more active forum just with few adds.

[aspnetguy]

Personally I like the forums as they are without all the distractions. I like how Skemcin put it. There are couple things that I would like to see changed though. On the main W3S site the link tot he forum should be more prominent and even have links ot specific forums in the tutorials themselves. This would give the forum much more exposure and we would see a nice increase in contributions to the community.For the most part htough I like this forum becuase of the great community that has grown here and it is a friendly place to discuss relavent issues.

[Norman]

For example (just becouse I'm curious), if I will put online a new vBulletin forum in order to host this forum members and gurus discussions, will you consider the idea to come there to discuss?

[aspnetguy]

For example (just becouse I'm curious), if I will put online a new vBulletin forum in order to host this forum members and gurus discussions, will you consider the idea to come there to discuss?

To be honest, no. I have no reason to come to your forum. I don't care about all the extra stuff you suggested so I am happy here and if for some reason I can't get an answer here I go to bigger, more specific forums like http://forums.asp.net.

[Skemcin]

For example (just becouse I'm curious), if I will put online a new vBulletin forum in order to host this forum members and gurus discussions, will you consider the idea to come there to discuss?

To be honest, no. I have no reason to come to your forum. I would also consider it competitive unless you went entirely in the social networking direction. I am happy here and if for some reason I can't get an answer here I go to bigger, more specific forums like:http://www.crystaltech.com/forumshttp://www.adobe.com/cfusion/webforums/for...x.cfm?forumid=1

[Jonas]

To be honest, no. I have no reason to come to your forum. I would also consider it competitive unless you went entirely in the social networking direction. I am happy here and if for some reason I can't get an answer here I go to bigger, more specific forums like:http://www.crystaltech.com/forumshttp://www.adobe.com/cfusion/webforums/for...x.cfm?forumid=1

LOL. Niiice parrot, skemcin. :)I wouldn't change forums or go to that forum either, because there's no reason. As has been said, some threads in the general section are allowed to fly, but we don't want to detract from this forum's original purpose. If I can't get an answer here I usually just give up, because my coding problems are never that big that I can't find the answer here. At least I haven't had any difficulty so far.

[music_lp90]

Yeah, I personally love the way this forum is. I have not found any other forum to be even close to as helpful as this one. What I like about this forum is:It is very active in my opinion. You can pretty much always expect to get a responseThreads very rarely, if ever, turn into pointless arguments. I've been part of forums where people seem to search threads to point out any fault they can find on things as little as spelling.And the greatest thing about the forum is the people that are a part of it. There are a few people on here that I personally owe a lot of thanks to for helping me to get to where I am at in developing for the web. I have a college degree and took a good number of web classes, but I've learned as much and probably more from people like justsomeguy, Boen Robot, and Synook. So, thanks you guys. I like your suggestions, but what I wouldn't want to happen is for this forum to start attracting people that aren't really interested in primarily the sharing of knowledge. You make some smart marketing points about awarding people for top poster of the month or whatever, because that could really encourage people to start trying more to contribute to the forum and answer as many questions as they can, making it more active, but it also could turn into the type of thing that leads to competitiveness and pointless arguments where people are trying to one up each other and prove their superiority. Colors, sure, thats fine. Smileys, I personally don't really like them. For some reason I like them better when they just show up as text.Those are just my thoughts.