Criticise my site

[roondog]

I've just made a clan site for some people who play rainbow six vegas on xbox360. Please have a look and give me some suggestions to improve it. The clan is happy with it but I would like to improve it a bit. The site can be found here.

[Jonas]

I don't like the violent red background. And the yellow border on white background is just an eye-sore.

[real_illusions]

i agree with Jonas, the background red i dont like, and the actual page background too.The menu text is too dark, the yellow border doesn't work..the whole site doesn't flowCant really add any improvements as its probably better to bulldoze it flat and start again.

[lilyofthevalley]

I can see where you were headed, based on the color pallette of the sign. I think with some playing around, you can still make this work.What you need to do is think of your color usage in similar terms as that sign does. Your bright colors such as your red and your yellow should only be used for accents. Stick with your neutrals for your larger mass areas and try to be concious of how busy a page looks.By using that urban night sky as a background image at 100% opacity, you already introduce something that is quite a lot to get distracted by. You might want to consider centering your background image, and overlaying it on a solid black background if you don't want the tiling, since the edges are obvious. (I have a widescreen monitor set at 1440x900 if you're curious.) If you're handy with an image editor, you can use it to soften the edge of your tile so that it fades into the black. Or, you can also tone down the image by layering a percentage of black over it to dull it down, and thus be less distracting as your background, and a bit less obvious in its tiling.Your lettering "RBD -THE RAINBOX SIX CLAN" is hard on the eye because it's so squished and jammed up against the edges there, and instead of using your red there, which would yeild a greater contrast, you went with the burgundy, with fades away a bit with the thinner letters on such a dark background. I can only imagine how huge that looks at a smaller res setting--you can make that a shade smaller and it will still be quite readable. You have that sharp logo, why don't you think about blowing it up and altering it so instead of saying "Tom Clancy's" it says RBD, and fiddle with the VEGAS underneath to say CLAN (I know, there's one more circle than there are letters in CLAN, but play with it--you could always duplicate that 60's star above the sign in the leftover circle--put it on the far right circle for balance.) Then you wouldn't need the text lettering beside it.The red is reeeeally tough to look at in that large of an amount. On top of that, you're using the burgundy directly over it which doesn't contrast as well. It's more of a cool warm, and the red you're using is definitely hot! Consider using black for your content background. The yellow stars will stand out better, and will be easier on the eye. You might also want to consider putting a break in between your paragraphs to make the text in your white content window more readable like you do on your TEAM RBD page.The link buttons are a bit large. And if you keep them burgundy, use white lettering as it will be easier to read. If you can outline them in white if you change the red background to black, that will help them pop a bit more as well, but could also be overdoing it.If you do change the red to black, you could try changing the right column of information to white with black lettering, and possibly the red as the accent for your lines. Or, still using white as the background, you could make the title background color the burgundy, again, with white lettering. Try both, and see what you like better.The lime-ish green swirly on the forum doesn't quite seem to go with anything else you've done so far as your theme. You'd probably be better of with just black back there. But your palette choices there are easier on the eye in general since you stayed with some grayed neutrals.

[vchris]

I agree. Newbish design. I would say if you don't redo it all, you would need to change a lot of images and styles.

[Skemcin]

excellent advice lilyofthevalley, leaves nothing else to really be said - welcome to the forums - somehow I missed your first 11 posts.

[roondog]

Thanks for the advice everyone. I have changed the colors and background for the moment but a complete re-design is on the cards

[ste]

I think you should experiment with fonts first in the logo where you have:which isnt bad but there are some much cooler fonts out there that would suit a clan sitei made this in about 30 seconds with a simple layer style in photoshop. its not great but you get the ideanext thing is body text you have I would try something else maybe like this:the css for that text is:p {font-size: 0.65em;line-height: 14px;color: #cbcbcb;font-family: Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;}hope this helps

[roondog]

Thanks for that. The banner is only temporary thats why its not great. I think also I rushed it all a bit but i'll give it a bit more time now experimenting with a few things and hopefully make something better.

[roondog]

Ok i've done a complete rehash of the homepage that can be seen Here it is by no means finished. I need to experiment with backgrounds and fonts etc. In the second box on the left there will be some image links. The banner also needs fixing but would this be a better design?

[ste]

i think that would be a better layout alright. keep us posted as you develop it

[vchris]

Nice banner ste. I like it

[justsomeguy]

The banner on the top is tiling. You will probably want to have it just display once. You can change the CSS for it to this:div.banner{float: left;background: url(/pictures/rbdbanner.jpg);background-position: top left;background-repeat: no-repeat;width: 800px;height: 100px;}

[roondog]

The new home page is practically finished and is here all suggestion welcome as ever.[skemcin: fixed broken link]

Edited January 11, 2007 by Roondog

[lilyofthevalley]

Ok...please don't take this the wrong way, but having seen the new incarnation of your website, I now need to go make an offering to the web deities of status quo and beg them to please give you your soul back. I think I have a shiny new wireless keyboard around here that will do nicely.I have to go run off to an appointment, so I'll make more detailed comments on this in a bit, but for now, to give you a general idea of what I'm seeing:Is this cleaner? Yes.Are some elements better organized and easier to read? Yes.Does it look like you to took a premade css and tried to fit your info into it? Yes.Is it boring and I swear I've seen this site in a thousand other places? Yes.Is this site better than the old? Ask the bulldozer boys, but my vote is no. I'll write more in a few hours as to why.

[lilyofthevalley]

Ok, I've got a bit more time now. I also took a look at what you have up as your main at present as well, so I'll be talking about both a bit, since I'm not sure which version is the one you're still working on. Understand that I am well aware of the adage that you can't please everyone all the time. I'm simply expressing my artistic opinions here since you asked for a critique. Many of the other folks here may not agree with what I have to say in regards to your design--they may prefer a look that is more standardized.The main difference I see between the two main pages is you took my advice on transforming the logo, used a different font for your clan name, and you got rid of the XBOX div on your header. You also seem to have resolved the alignment of the background gray for your links, although I noticed some of your internal pages look like they still need tweaking, which if you were using an external style sheet, you shouldn't need to do per page. First, let me get to why I think this site design is not better than the old:In my mind, this site contains info on your clan, a group you belong to because it is fun. I do not get the impression, despite the notification about tourneys, that this is for a professional gaming clan. If I am incorrect in that assessment, please tell me. Although I think a professional gaming site can afford to take some risks in design as well, I especially think a fan or community site is the perfect place to take risks, which you did initially, but have now sadly run away from. What remains is an homage to the Patron Saint of Mediocrity. You lost the unique pizazz you were working with when trying to wrangle with your design demons.I liked the direction ste was pointing you in, but he should have left the yelllow stars overlaying the black background, not the white, nor, even worse to my sensibilities, eliminating them as a border altogether and staying black on black with white lettering. Part of what makes the sign design work is the way its elements are laid out: the use of contrast is maximized, and the end result is still perfectly readable and yet not hard on the eye. I can understand, due to the more square-like than rectangular shape of the logo, your hesitation to allow it to be a central element to your header, especially if you are using the same header for your forum, but I think it would look sharper to have instead blown up the logo and centralized it as your non forum header, making a second header for your forum to match the rectangular shape required for that format.Is this cleaner? Are some elements better organized and easier to read? Yes.This version is a lot easier on the eye. You've definitely paid more attention to your use of white space for organization and readability. But, it also appears that you are trying to work with a pre-made because of how some of the elements still do not fit perfectly (i.e. your links box and how squished the Tom Clancy's logo box appears in its link box).Suggestions as the design stands now:I don't know who your intended audience is for this site other than the members of your clan although it seems, due to your call for other clans to game with, that you do hope other people will be looking at your site that play this game. I am aware that you may be concious of SEO due to trying to reach those other players, which could lead to decisions such as wanting the text of your clan's name in your header, although that would really only help people search for your site if they are looking for your clan's name specifically, not the name of the game. You would be better suited on your main page to say the name of the game. So intead of saying "Welcome to the new clan site for 'RBD - The Rainbow Six Clan'. Here you will find information about the clan, it's members and it's activities. Feel free to look around, check out how we shape up and challenge us to a match." You might want to say something like "Welcome to Team RBD's The Rainbow Six clan site. Here you will find information about the clan, its members and its activities. Feel free to look around, check out how we shape up, and challenge us to a match." It would be a good idea to check out the main page for The Rainbox Six, and see if they require sites about their game to post their name in a particular way, such as with a TM. Sometimes they also require certain placement of their logo (or the size of it) as well. Also, it's better to italicize or <em> the name of the game for SEO because the quotes can affect the results on some results, and, of course, because it's an official title of the game.Also, there are probably general sites (wiki or forum) focused on this game out there. Most of them have a place to do recruiting or at least shout out about your clan. That is a perfect place to get traffic, as it is so darn specific to the purpose of your site. Usually, all they ask for is a link back on your site, which is easy to do. And, I believe that if the name of their site is already higher ranked than theirs, that will help you with SEO as well, for all the wrong reasons, but nevertheless do what they do.The first person who taught me about web dev told me that under construction sections and pages look bad. I agree with him. There are other ways to hint at what will be on the site later, but empty elements (such as Next/Latest Clan Match) detract, and actually make your clan look inactive. I think it would be better for you to invite other clans to do a match with you, and then, once the match is scheduled, then bring it up as a separate area, and, if you're really thinking, make sure you have the website of the clan to link to their name, or at least an e-mail addy of a member of that clan so you can notify them that you've posted the info--adding the link to your site, thus enticing them to visit your site, if only to see their clan name on your page. You can always save a copy of this page, and then when you have the pertinent info, it's easy to just change the page over. Some would call this a bit backwards dev, but it has saved me time many times over with my sites in the past. You can fill in any space left by jazzing up your call for matches by given the call a header such as "IS YOUR CLAN UP TO THE CHALLENGE?" or the like.Spell and grammar check your site. There are a few errors.Your redesign of the logo looks good with one exception: it's terribly hard to read TEAM RBD. If you copy the Tom Clancy case approach, it should say Team RBD, which will give you a little bit more room to up your font size for readability's sake on higher res screens.The text TEAM RBD in your header can still be a tad smaller. It looks too big, even with the white space padding you have given it. Also, none of the color within matches your burgundy.If you were willing to head back in the direction you started with, I would love to see how you take that design further, and then could further comment. But if you are more comfortable or content with this version, then...The gray behind your links is nice, but a color would be better there because now the page is quite neutral. If you are concerned about the pop colors (yellow and red), use the blue, but you'll probably want to knock it down to a hue more in sync with the burgundy as opposed to the royal blue of the logo, again because now your page has become very neutral. As far as how to advertise updates to your site...unless you are listing all the changes you make over time, only include the info pertinent at the time, and leave the obvious stuff out like "this website is live". Instead of: "As of 3/1/2007 most parts of the site are still under construction but we endeavour to make it fully operational as soon as possible.UPDATE!!! 6/1/2007 The website is now live with forum and about us pages finished. Other pages to be completed soon.SEE YOU IN VEGAS! ", use:"UPDATE!-6/1/2007-Finished sections: forum, about us. We are currently endeavoring to make the rest of our site fully operational as soon as possible."I would center: SEE YOU IN VEGAS! AHHHHHHH! NO! I just saw that you added the image behind the text links to fill in the white space-totally wrong direction to go in and way too busy in an element by itself! Worse, a page you say is finished, the about page, you now can't read the links because they gray highlight/background for each has disappeared or somehow got layered under the image.Do you have to say "see you in Vegas" on the main and the about us pages? One or the other should be sufficient.

[roondog]

Thanks once again for the suggestions. Where do I start in reply? First off i'll explain a little about the site, its not actually my clan (although i am now a member). There was a call for help on the xbox forums and I decided to answer. The only remit I was given was the different pages they wanted and the bit of text 'about us' page. So I quickly put together the old design just as an example. They seemed pretty happy about it but it was heavily criticised on the forums so I came here looking for suggestions knowing they would be constructive. The overall feeling seemed to be re-design so I had a look at a few other clan-sites and went for a similar design but obviously in my own way. The last design you saw was mid tinkering (i was tired and needed sleep) so I have immediately changed some things. A few of the things are there temporarily until I get round to sorting them (the rainbow six link image, some of the text). I have once again taken your advice with the links box and added a few colours hopefully they are not too harsh on the eye. Next I'll move on to the rest of the pages and put them back in order.Thanks once again for the suggestions.p.s the only version is at www.teamrbd.co.nr