Jonas

Browser Discussion

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We, the mods, have decided to keep all browser discussion in one thread. All discussion concerning browser differences, why one is better than the other, etc. will be redirected here. Should a topic go slightly off-topic and bring in browsers (example: A question on page not displaying properly in IE, explaining of why IE doesn't display the css properly occurs), then that's ok, but as a general rule, use this thread.

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Because it seems no one is turning attention to a very important post of mine, I'm goint to give a link to it here:http://w3schools.invisionzone.com/index.ph...indpost&p=11008Come on people! Repot to Microsoft!!! I hate it when I (or anyone else) give a link and no one turns it attention and later on curses the product (in this particular case: IE7) as if he/she didn't had a chance to suggest things about it :) .P.S. The previous product which the above statement refers to was WMP10. I was testing the Technical beta preview, and I suggested a lot of things to the development team along with another person (there were other suggestions of course but we were the only ones with over 400 posts :) ). I gave a link to the newsgroup at one forum, but when the final version was released, THEN the people started cursing instead of when I gave them the link :( . Why didn't they told me theese things earlyer so I could suggest them, or tell Microsoft directly? Huh... nevermind... just please... before you star critisising IE7, tell your opinipon to Microsoft first.

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I agree, you can't go around saying "IE is bad because it has bugs!!!!" when you can report things to the producer. How is the producer going to make the new version bug free without people reporting better. You can't just hope microsoft will make IE7 better. But you can help them make it better by reporting bugs! Nice point.

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In my opinion, you can go around saying IE is bad, because currently, it is. Sure, you can make it better by suggesting things, but the time it takes between software updates still makes IE lag behind the browsers like firefox and Opera which are more frequently updated. And that's a reason why IE will never be good enough, because updates isn't a priority, because Microsoft has so much other stuff on their hands, like the Office package and stuff like that.

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Yes you can but it dosen't help. If it was changed, it would not be bad anymore. I agree that microsoft is lazy with IE and yes that is because it is a free product and it is not a major one whereas firefox etc are focused and devoted to just the browser. IF you report it could help. I preferably don't mind IE and firefox. I don't really care which I use. Im not a fan of any browser. In fact I made a bad browser once that had a memory leak in one of the dll's and would freeze in 10 minutes! :) I could have produced it into a great browser if not for the leak. (I got the dll's of a freind). Anyway, good point.-=alzable=- :)

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Microsoft has so much other stuff on their hands, like the Office package and stuff like that.
If anyone has ever tried MSN, he/she would find that it is better than IE. I think they concentrate more on that because it's not free.I'm not sure that telling Microsoft about the bugs in IE helps much because I'm sure they get a huge number of complaints very often.So instead I think we should start spreading the word about Firefox and try to make it a more universal browser.

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I think firefox already is a universal browser. But of coarse, how does complaining help. THe only "possible" way to help is send a report. Otherwise, you are most likely not going to make a difference.

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Actually, I think the best way to change Microsoft's priorities with IE is to threaten its position as the most popular (read: most used) browser on the market. Firefox/Netscape/Opera are universal and functional browsers, and are growing in popularity each day. Reports may help, but I don't think they're gonna help until the day Microsoft finds a reason to listen to people. As things are today, they are completely ignoring serious webdevelopers, including their own tags, attributes and styles, and making webdesign difficult to get to work in all browsers, and that's also why they're losing ground. I don't see this changing any time soon.

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As web developers, we all want our pages to work in all browsers, right? Newbies (a.k.a. lamers) won't get firefox. There's no way that this will change scince IE comes with Windows. If IE doesn't become better, we would still have to take it in consideration. Considering the above two- It's better to suggest even if Microsoft is not going to listen. If you DO say something, there's a better chance then if you don't say anything. It's like voting on political elections. If you don't give your opinion (a.k.a. vote) for the goverment you prefer, then you don't have the right to critisize it.

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If IE doesn't become better, we would still have to take it in consideration.
Yes, we want our pages to look basically the same in all browsers, so we will accommodate IE users as well as the others, but that won't keep people from advertising against IE, trying to open people's minds.http://www.stopie.com/http://www.stopie.com/standards/An example of a page that advertises against IE. There are lots of reasons why one should switch browsers...

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In my opinion, the vast majority of the public probably couldn't care less about browsers. They by a pc with windows and IE is already there, they use it to surf the web and their happy. They don't know about all the hassle us guys get because of inconsistencies and bluntly they don't care. They probably don't even know that Firefox or others exist and even if they did would they actually bother downloading it anyway?Because IE comes with windows it will always be the no1 browser (in terms of number of users).As i said though this is only my opinion, and yeah, IE is a pain in the backside :)

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<meta http-equiv="Refresh" content="1;URL=http://www.google.com">

Uh... okaaay..? :)

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I think maqromedia explained the reason for which XHTML is not allowed to be used inside posts :) .

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Yeh I don't really care which I use, in fact, it does not bother me how the browsers are different as a webmaster. I try to work around that, in fact, it is a good challenge. But it would be nice if one of them changed to make it a little easier. Once I created a site, it worked well on IE, but it went all out of shape in Firefox. It gets difficult to accomodate all browsers. The thing is, if IE is supplied with windows, it should be regulary updated and worked on. I think microsoft should work with mozilla and make it a browser that comes with windows.

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Or Windows could come without a pre-installed browser, and you could get a cd with browser software for a cheap sum.

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Or Windows could come without a pre-installed browser, and you could get a cd with browser software for a cheap sum.

Wouldn't this also make FireFox and Opera paid? Also, if only IE is sold this way, a user would buy it and not bother to change it scince he/she has payed for it. On the other hand, if IE was paid, Microsoft were going to turn a bit more attention to it I think.

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Wouldn't this also make FireFox and Opera paid? Also, if only IE is sold this way, a user would buy it and not bother to change it scince he/she has payed for it. On the other hand, if IE was paid, Microsoft were going to turn a bit more attention to it I think.

Hmm, good point. Ok, so you could just get a cd that came with your computer, with an exe install file of the latest edition of each browser, and a list of features on each, then you could install the one you think fits you best. As things are now, however, IE is more than a browser for windows, since it shares a lot of features with Windows Explorer and is needed for windows to still function properly... :)

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Yes, IE is related to Windows Explorer, in fact, if you type a web address into the windows explorer address bar, it morphs into the IE toolbars. And connects to the web, displaying the address you typed in. But, microsoft could take IE out of the start menu and desktop as a default. Funny thing is, I started with IE and I have used it ever sinse because, it was what I saw first (I was no wizz with computers at that time).alzable

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I'll just say this, the only reason I use Firefox over IE is because IE still doesn't have tabs. You have to open up a new window each time you want a new screen.

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Please. Someone. Just tell me, even if you don't mean it. Just. Tell. Me. PLEASE! All you have to say is "IE 7 Will have png transparency." PLEASE! JUST SAY IT! AHHHH! I'M GOING TO GO NUTS! Gifs rob my quality, pngs rob my ie users, and jpgs just look retarded. I'm in a blackhole of doom. And it's IE's fault. I say, die IE, die. :'(

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I honestly think IE is a good browser. I run IE7 Beta 1 and run Maxthon on top of it, and I can't find a single thing FireFox has over it, except for perhaps the standards side of it - which MS is working hard to rectify, if you read the IEBlog. Security.. I run Maxthon with scripts auto-disabled apart from on a selected list of trusted sites, no ActiveX, no Java Applets, no Flash. It's 2 clicks to turn them back on, but my virus checker hasn't even brought up a JS-Exploit type script which I used to get all the time. Tabbed browsing with drag-links for new tab, it's great.That aside.. I think if we're just talking about the core browsers with no add-ons (that includes things like Greasemonkey), i'd have to go with Opera. It just feels professional, especially on Linux when compared with FF there.About the whole shipping Windows without a browser - I think that's a bad decision. Remember how annoying it was when Windows didn't include an unzipper? :)

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except for perhaps the standards side of it
Well, that's just it, isn't it? At least, up until now, IE has sucked terribly at webstandards, and Microsoft are still behind much of the problems of crossbrowser webprogramming, because of their invention of certain tags and css additions that people use who don't know better. IE7 is probably heading in the right direction standards-wise, but as I hear, they're still not optimizing their CSS support, because they don't want to screw things up for people who optimized their pages for IE6, using CSS hacks. It's a neverending loop of problems for themselves and us.I agree about Opera, which is why I use it. Firefox does have a lot of neat add-ons, but for my part, I don't need them. All I need is the websites I visit to be properly displayed. Also, I love Opera's shortcut-key system. Ctrl+Alt+V I particularly use a lot. :)

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I can see Vista being the end of IE and perhaps the creation of something like Microsoft Browser Live! It is an outdated engine, and it would mean they wouldn't have to support existing legacies. They've got some great people on the IE team now though, so we'll see what happens.

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